Read messages appearing as unread!

[#1]

Anotherone wrote:

So you'd prefer that no tarting-up was done would you, and that we can't use Jack's little trick to give us some semblance of what we've read from the notification feed.?

What do you mean some semblance ?, for me the notifications don't work AT ALL, when numbers are displayed they appear to be random, they are NEVER correct before I start reading posts, and they are NEVER correct after I've read the post either. It is utterly useless, just like the people who coded it.

The red dot notification thingy should be removed until it has been made to work, and what is the point of displaying the notification panel when there is nothing displayed -

Can you see the notification count, or the number of unread PMs ?  - NO because it doesn't work !

To make things worse, half the time the links below don't function when they are clicked on either.

As I said this is shockingly bad coding, and the web design team should be sent back to remedial school for basic software design and learn how to create a simple program that actually works as intended.

Why the hell were we switched from the old working forum, to this steaming pile of broken features, when clearly almost nothing about the new forum works as intended, it's useless, and I'm getting very annoyed that after two months that none of the staff seem to be able to fix ANYTHING, and every day we are still finding previously undiscovered breakages !

This is just not good enough !

When is @LouisaMartin going to visit Lithium's offices and not leave until our forum is put right ?

[#2]

So I've only been using the same PC since my last post, the red bubble said I had three notifications, clicked on the avatar to see what these were, and guess what ?

YES  IT'S  BLOODY  WELL  BROKEN  AGAIN !

I find it incredulous, that Plusnet managed to choose a forum host, with a supposed history of providing working forums for other companies,  yet here even basic functionality such as keeping track of which posts are new, and which ones have been read,  can't be made to work !.

When are Plusnet going to call on Lithium's expertise, and get a Lithium developer into Plusnet's offices to show the Plusnet web developers how to make this work ?.  If Lithium's other clients have working forums, then presumably that means the Lithium API works,  therefore is it unreasonable to assume that Plusnet's web site developers are using the API incorrectly ?

[#3]

@Anonymous

We know from your other posts that you clearly have some oddity with your connection to this forum which I was willing to spend a bit of time discussing with you separately and see what I could do to see if I could replicate some of those issues.

The Notification Feed (as it currently stands) works fine for me - with the exceptions I noted in my earlier post. I have no trouble seeing the count of Unread PMs, or the Notification count, or an entry's Read/Unread status when using the link in the notification feed, and have no problem with the links. NOR does anyone else have a problem with those features not working - at least not that anyone who's been frequenting this forum and reporting other issues, has reported. It's only you.
And whilst you are taking this attitude, I'm not prepared to spend any more time on it. You need to tone it down.

@Anonymous Did you not read my post previous to yours? (Edit: you may also care to re-read message 32 & 33)

Anotherone wrote:
Don't get me wrong, Lithium should do the job properly but I'm not expecting a solution tomorrow (unfortunately)

I also said:
.....and integrate what they created some considerable while ago (as a bit of a bolt on job) properly into the product....

Now that should have given you a bit of a clue that it wasn't as it ought to be! The Notification feed was created some time ago (I don't recall exactly when - long before Plusnet even looked at the Lithium solution) at the request of one of their other users - I don't recall if it was ever mentioned who it was - there is a long list of other organisations that use this product.
It has (had) no connection with how threads are marked Read/Unread - and that was the first problem that we saw. The Notification feed (as it was when we first encountered it) - bore some semblance to the "Replies to your posts" that we had on SMF. However it did not have any indication as to whether a post had been read or not - no bolding/different shade etc. It was merely a list of replies, thanks and mentions to those threads that you'd posted in (and subscribed - as you can turn that off). That's why I've described it as a bolt-on job.

The "acknowledged issue" that your refer to is not connected to this.

The Notification feed in it's basic state has no indication whatsoever of a post/thread being Unread or Read. If it was properly integrated into the product - by which I mean if you read a post/thread using any link from anywhere in the forum structure (or even a notification email), whether it be Board lists, Unread threads/posts modules, Recent posts module, wherever, then the entry in the Notification Feed would show an entry as Read - on the assumption of course that it showed an Unread status in the first place (and so should any of the other lists).
I hope that is now crystal clear.

I have no idea if similar issues are posted elsewhere, as you put it, but I dare say if you sign up to some of the other Lithium forums and make a few posts, you will probably encounter the Notification Feed (if it's turned on/provided) in it's basic state - unless the company involved has a clever dev who has done some tweaks similar to Jack's. Whether you encounter people who are as critical as we are about it, I have not looked.

[#4]

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Nibiru wrote:

When are Plusnet going to call on Lithium's expertise, and get a Lithium developer into Plusnet's offices to show the Plusnet web developers how to make this work ?.

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THAT is definitely not required. What IS required is that a Plusnet dev goes to Lithium TO SHOW THEM how it should be done

[#5]

@Anotherone  why do you spend so much time making excuses for Plusnet when they have ruined what used to be a great forum.  This is a massive cockup by Plusnet, because either the Plusnet code is rubbish, or they have entered into a contract with Lithium over which they don't seem to have any influence.

How do you know that the problems I am reporting only happen to me ?

As a long time member of this forum I have chosen to spend my time reporting issues which other people haven't, and therefore by definition is likely to put me in a minority.

I suspect for the more casual forum viewer, that they find the whole experience so appalling, that they can't be bothered to spend even a moment of their time, struggling to sign-up, report an issue which is likely to either be ignored or receive a patronizing denial reply, then after reading other posts it becomes abundantly clear (after two months) that the Plusnet staff seem to have no motivation to make this forum great again.

Just look at the number of forum visitors now, it is perhaps a tenth of what it was a few months ago.

[#6]

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@Anotherone wrote:
What IS required is that a Plusnet dev goes to Lithium TO SHOW THEM how it should be done

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Now you are just being silly ! 

Do you really think, that when Plusnet only appear to have one web designer, who is multitasking over a number of projects on a daily basis, and doesn't spend enough time on any of them, that Plusnet will let them leave the building ?

[#7]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@Anotherone  why do you spend so much time making excuses for Plusnet when they have ruined what used to be a great forum.

I do not make any excuses for Plusnet for this heap of ....  As far as I'm concerned that is the responsibility of the Project leader and whoever else in Plusnet management made the decision to go with this solution. There has been significant criticism already about that, elsewhere.
I will however defend Jack from your personal attacks where it's appropriate, because as I have already mentioned, without his efforts, there would be things that would be a lot worse.

Not content with your personal attacks on Jack, you have now started on me, and that is the last straw. There are already several posts in this thread that have made it clear (as well as a few elsewhere) that there appears to be little control (if any) over Lithium, and as regards whatever the contract says and that ability or lack thereof, I have also been critical. It's also been made clear that Plusnet do not have access to Lithium's code and that all they can do is some pretty nifty skinning to make this heap of .... look (and where possible - appear to perform) a little better. If you haven't read all the critical comments that several of us have made about this product, then I suggest you do so before making your accusations, which in the way you have made them imply that me and others who were involved in testing, are responsible for this lousy product. We were presented with a "fait accompli" and have tried to get it made into as good a shape as possible (and have continued to press for further improvements).

Oh, and in future, if you are going to quote me (assuming you are given the opportunity to do so) then don't quote me out of context where what you have quoted can be misunderstood because you didn't also quote a relevant (albeit brief) explanation that went with the sentence you quoted and therefore try and make out I'm some complete and utter idiot - which incidently clearly I am for wasting some much time on this.

And FYI, just to acquaint you with another fact, Plusnet do have more than one web dev and there were several allocated to this project before it went live, and just because Jack is the front man does not justify your assumptions, accusations, or attacks.

@Anonymous wrote:
How do you know that the problems I am reporting only happen to me ?

As a long time member of this forum I have chosen to spend my time reporting issues which other people haven't, and therefore by definition is likely to put me in a minority.

IIRC (maybe I don't) some of the other (quite complex) problems that you have reported in the past were being experienced by others, but it perhaps was only you that had sufficient knowledge to provide adequate technical detail of the issue.

But with regard to what you have mentioned in recent posts in this thread about missing counts and balloons etc, I think other people would have to be blind to not notice if they didn't have them either - and so far I haven't seen a single post from anyone else with the same problem. I've already told you I suspect it's related to those horrendous 'get' times that you are experiencing for whatever reason.

Have you actually visited other Lithium forums to see if you have similar issues with them - now that would be constructive - instead of wasting everyone's time whilst you are making personal attacks for which you are likely to receive a patronising response - if any at all, rather than just pressing Report to Moderator!

[#8]

Oh, almost forgot

Nibiru wrote:
Just look at the number of forum visitors now, it is perhaps a tenth of what it was a few months ago.

Oh you have the official statistics to back that up have you? because when I've made a few cursory looks at the numbers logged in, the peaks appear to have been in a similar ball-park to previous recent SMF numbers and very clearly a lot more than the exaggerated "tenth" you try and claim. And the number of guests has certainly been up in a similar ball park to previously. However there are clearly a number of people who are visiting for shorter periods and less frequently, and that now includes me.

[#9]

Anotherone , whilst i do and many others here appreciate your input to the forum , even your self must admit there has been a lack of fixed Bug / errors since the new and improved forum went live !

Ok yes we had plenty of input from PN at first but it has dwindled , Come on even you must admit the vast  white space hasn't been fixed yet !!  surely this should have been a easy fix , same as the size of the pink blobs .

yes i do know there are some available moded themes , BUT its no good if you are a new user !!!! these simple fixes should have been sorted by now . same as the double posts should have been simple fix .

How long ago is it since PN posted a list of fixes to be applied   TOO LONG 4 weeks ago

I have said this before , it looks like PN have decided just to keep people quiet with promises with  the hope we will just go away

[#10]

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@rongtw wrote:

it looks like PN have decided just to keep people quiet with promises with  the hope we will just go away

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I agree that is what appears to have happened. 

What I don't understand is that we used to have a great forum (albeit not perfect, but better than this), then out of the blue, Plusnet announced that they wish to support the community by investing in a new forum platform, had a hidden trial to iron out the bugs but apparently didn't address many concerns raised by the secret trialists, rolled out the bug ridden forum regardless, and ever since have apparently done very little to fix any of the issues raised.

The question is what is really going on here, it makes no sense to invest money in a project and then provide virtually no support from the moment it goes live.

[#11]

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@Anotherone wrote:

@Anonymous Did you not read my post previous to yours? (Edit: you may also care to re-read message 32 & 33)

Anotherone wrote:
Don't get me wrong, Lithium should do the job properly but I'm not expecting a solution tomorrow (unfortunately)

I also said:
.....and integrate what they created some considerable while ago (as a bit of a bolt on job) properly into the product....

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@Anotherone - If you are referring to message 43 then of course I did it was that message to which I was replying. And if you read mine you'll know that I am in agreement with you regarding Lithium's position to fix this, my point was and still the same as @Anonymous's in that the user should not be expected in any way, shape or from to implement a kludge in order to have a core operation work the way they expect it to. If it's not a core option then it should not be released into the public until full integration and testing has been completed.

But I do admit to being a bit confused as regards the 'bolt on job' since you appear to be privy to information regarding its history; information I do not have. If this code was created some time ago then surely this code should have been tested prior to any inclusion in the public code base, and if done correctly it should not be bolted on but properly integrated within the core framework so the others (Lithium customers) could benefit from the update.

[#12]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anotherone wrote:

Jack's little fix relying on browser history to mark things read in the Notification Feed, for some reason, I'm not sure, this doesn't always seem to work.

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 WTF !  You can't do that ! - no wonder it doesn't work properly ! 

• Many people disable browsing history, for privacy reasons.
• I access this forum on about many different devices, so there is no common browsing history.
• Accessing the forum in browser 'incognito' mode will break the notification history.
• User may clear their browser cache (for other reasons) and lose their forum 'read' history.

@jaread83  is this true ? - because that is a shockingly bad solution if it is !  

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How is this is a bad solution? Would you rather the notification feed just displays the list of links as is with no indication that you had clicked any of the links? You make it sound like we are somehow collecting your browser history which just isn't the case. During testing with @Anotherone and others we all agreed that the feed itself had its flaws when it comes to identifying what links we had clicked as the feed itself would clear the 'new' status upon visiting the feed page. Having the feed page clear the 'new' status became increasingly annoying as users reported that they had no idea if they had clicked anything to have a look at what was replied to. Anyway, there were a couple of ideas thrown about to use and we decided to go with a method of changing the colour of 'visited' links in the feed. The other method was to use cookies but to be honest that was too long winded and noone wants yet another cookie placed on their browser.

If you aren't using history in your browser then this functionality will not work and you will end up with the standard way that the feed displays without my enhancement. That is fine if you want to use the website in this way and feel the need not to store your history but at the same time by not enabling history in your browser you are probably aware of the limiting functionality of any website that this will bring to your browsing experience.

When I created this fix I told the users that this fix would not be cross platform compatible as it relies on your browser history.

If I remove my enhancement to the feed item I guarantee that other users will not be getting the best use of the notification system.

BTW, this does not affect anything except the colour of the links in the notification feed. It doesn't affect any 'unread' posts or anything like that. It's just the NOTIFICATION FEED that this affects.

[#13]

As an aside, we have already submitted an idea to Lithium to update the notification feed to clear the 'new' status after clicking the link to the post. That's how I would do it anyway so then you have a clear indication of what is still considered 'new'.

[#14]

@jaread83 - Can you clarify something for me please. Is the read history maintained at the Client end or the Server end?

[#15]

Hi @Anonymous,

It's all handled server side with what you have looked at on the forum (in terms of the system identifying what you have read). The notification feed is also server side too.

The 'fix' I had placed on the notification feed is literally just a CSS for the :visited pseudo selector to give the notification feed a bit better usability but it relies on your browsers history (so not cross device/browser/private mode compatible).