Landline closure?
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Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 11:17 AM - edited 28-09-2023 11:33 AM
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@Mustrum wrote:
@pvmb you are the one that is assuming broadband - all the gizmo or Hub2 would do is convert analogue to digital and then back to analogue for the phone. You are over complicating the whole thing.,
No need to take broadband, just so happens a router can do the job.
So in effect it IS a "BT clunky solution". 😉
I don't think it is me "over complicating the whole thing." !
It seems to me the 'neat' solution, for the given situation, would have been a standalone device to do the job rather than have to use an entire BT Home Hub plus phone adaptor. Indeed, perhaps said simpler device (no Ethernet ports, no Wi-Fi etc.) would consume less power than a full blown broadband router and so more easily could have included a useful battery backup system?
Sounds to me like "costs" have more to do with this than any sensible engineering solution.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 11:41 AM
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If we take it at a high level and simplistic view, which hopefully they'll get to the point of soon which will satisfy most non-technical users, who don't care about how it's happening, then there will be 3 options:
- Broadband and voice from a single ISP - With most ISPs who are doing this it will just be a case of either plugging the phone into the back of the ISP supplied hub, or pairing a DECT phone (or multiple DECT phones) to the hub.
- Phone only - This will ultimately be a low bandwidth broadband connection, with just carrying the phones data. Supplied with one or more devices (unknown yet), one of which a phone can plug in to.
- Broadband with voice from a separate company - There are many VOIP suppliers and many (most/all?) will sell you preconfigured ATA's or phones if you wish.
The means of broadband in all of this could be ADSL, FTTC or FTTP depending on what is available and what the user wants.
The big issue I think there is at the moment is the amount of misinformation going around, including in the mainstream media.
What we have currently is:
- Openreach closing down PSTN (voice) in 2025, though with a few exchanges already been done as pilots. I can't remember if that's expanding (or been expanded from the original ones)
- BT (Retail ISP) switching their customers to their Digital Voice solution based on location ahead of the Openreach shutdown. You may be able to opt out for the time being, but I've not been following it closely enough to be sure.
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 11:53 AM - edited 28-09-2023 12:02 PM
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@pvmb the BT Hub in the example has a phone adapter already built in - it would be easy enough for them to send it out with WiFi and ethernet switched off - so for them a low cost, low development cost solution. The little old lady in your example won't care as long as she follows the video and plugs her phone into the phone socket.
They may well have a simpler device, but from your original post you just wanted to find out what would happen, then you go off on a tangent - or tangents as more people try and help you understand.
"Come the day, BT are going to terminate her PSTN service. So they arrive at her home with the 'gizmo', to keep her going in the age of VoIP. They set it up, plug her DECT phone into the 'gizmo' and... Exactly what then?
Previously, I had always assumed they would plug the 'gizmo' into her landline phone socket, turn the power on, and away she goes - into the digital age!"
So apart from the names your original assumption was correct.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 11:57 AM
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@pjmarsh - Great words, just to add that Openreach no longer allow ISP'S to order a PSTN service from them as of the 5th of September. That means that customers already on a PSTN phone line for now are safe but if they move ISP's or move house or their line is ceased in error, there is no way to get a PSTN phone line back.
They can take out FTTC/SOGEA but can't having a PSTN Phone service with it.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 1:03 PM - edited 28-09-2023 1:11 PM
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@Mustrum wrote:
@pvmb the BT Hub in the example has a phone adapter already built in - it would be easy enough for them to send it out with WiFi and ethernet switched off - so for them a low cost, low development cost solution. The little old lady in your example won't care as long as she follows the video and plugs her phone into the phone socket.
They may well have a simpler device, but from your original post you just wanted to find out what would happen, then you go off on a tangent - or tangents as more people try and help you understand.
Nope! You are wrong there, Mustrum. I have remained anchored to precisely the question I very carefully constructed in my OP. Sure, some people seem to have misunderstood my very carefully crafted question and gone "off at a tangent" asking me about my setup at home and referencing details about phone sockets etc. All of which is irrelevant to my original question. But that wasn't me.
OTOH some people (including yourself) have provided valuable insights - the overall result is that there IS still general doubt and some confusion over this matter. i.e. It ISN'T just me.
As an adjacent matter: If I recall correctly, a few years ago, BT was reported to have paused the digital rollout because of questions such as "How do we make 999 calls if the mains power goes down?". That was supposed to allow BT to find a solution before continuing. They are going ahead now but I still haven't heard of any "solution". Indeed, reading other threads on this forum has shown the problem is not even as simple as was originally thought - the BT digital cabinets and even mobile phone base stations seem only to have limited battery backup.
For myself, I originally thought I would simply be plugging my DECT phone into my Plusnet Hub 2 router! Later I decided I would likely just let the landline go and depend on my elderly mobile phone, which is what I already use for most phone calls. However... the problem being the elderly base station I depend on, which is proving nowadays to be about as reliable as a 1950s Ford Prefect with a nylon stocking for a fan belt. I am not yet an 80 year old but am getting there. If the power goes off and the base station is also on the blink I certainly won't be able to call any emergency services if needed.
In the fullness of time it is not too fanciful to think there may be deaths. Then the newspapers will be full of headlines such as "Why weren't we told?", "How could BT let this OAP die alone at home?".
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 1:28 PM
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@pvmb, you seem to be lumping everything under BT here. The cabinets and infrastructure are Openreach, The ISP you are talking about is BT (though there are many other options as well), and the phone masts are totally separate.
Also, if your phones are relying on a DECT base station now, then that wouldn't work in a power cut whilst your connected to the PSTN either.
I've no stats to back this up, but over the last few years when users have been asked on here to try a corded telephone to test with during a fault, quite a lot will say that they don't have a corded phone (so don't have anything that would work in a power cut), and often that they don't have any kind of phone at all.
These have likely been considered and factored into decisions about all this at many different organisations (Ofcom, Openreach, ISPs etc...).
How that antidotal evidence translates to older people, I don't know. On one hand they may have an old corded phone because its what they always had, but on the other hand they may have a DECT phone because they are less mobile, and can keep that phone with them.
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 3:24 PM
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antidotal evidence
'spool chucker' strikes again🤣
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 3:27 PM
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Oops. I should really proof read what I type!!! 😅
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 9:37 PM
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So the theoretical old lady is going to watch a video (over broadband that she doesn't have?)
Or are they shipping with a DVD on the assumption that the little old lady has a DVD player.
(I'm loosely following this discussion as my neighbour doesn't have broadband as far as I know. Only a phone. So I'm adjacent to a couple of aged people who are potentially in the situation.)
I'm sure there must be someone in BT who has the experience to think through all scenarios. Surely?
Re: Landline closure?
28-09-2023 9:39 PM
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@MisterW wrote:
antidotal evidence
'spool chucker' strikes again🤣
The best one I saw recently was "Sunak" being replaced with "Sunk"
Re: Landline closure?
29-09-2023 7:40 AM
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I'm sure there must be someone in BT who has the experience to think through all scenarios. Surely?
Think , BT !! can you use those words in the same sentence ?
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
Re: Landline closure?
30-09-2023 10:28 AM - edited 30-09-2023 10:31 AM
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https://newsroom.bt.com/bt-announces-regional-rollout-schedule-for-digital-voice/
Also heard some radio ads, for the first time today, from BT announcing changeover, so the media campaign has started, at last!
Re: Landline closure?
30-09-2023 11:42 AM
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Maybe some clarity from BT
It must be noted that this clarity is aimed at BT customers only. Nothing to do with what Openreach are planning, so everyone else need to wait for their ISP to make announcements about plans if any to provide a landline based phone number.
Re: Landline closure?
30-09-2023 12:01 PM - edited 30-09-2023 12:02 PM
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My understanding, from a staff member post buried deep in this forum, is that migration to BT digital voice will be offered to those who wish to keep their landline.
Re: Landline closure?
30-09-2023 12:18 PM
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No Plusnet (or any other ISPs) customer could migrate to BT for a copper voice service now. If they where to go for a voice service from BT then they would be straight onto Digit Voice.
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
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