Failure to provide broadband for new build property

[#1]

PN seem to be refusing to start the refund process for 3-5 working days and then the process will take up to another 10 days after that, so I will have to wait for about three weeks for my money back (unless of course after three weeks it does not arrive due to another human error and I have to chase them up and wait another three weeks)
I have been told that the only way that the payment can be stopped is for me to cancel the direct debit, but if I do this I will failed to have paid PN for my broadband which under their terms and conditions they will then cut off.
Is PN instructing customers who it overcharges that they can cancel their direct debits with a guarantee that it will not disconnect services?
(If so this should be made very clear in the T & C. Perhaps PN should advise customer of their intent to debit money in a manner timely another so if there has been a error on PN part it can be changed if the customer act promptly.)
Is PN happy with how it has handled this overcharging' with the delay in refund and the inability to stop inappropriate debits without the customer being in breach of contract?
If PN is not happy what will it be doing to treat customers better in the future?
I am sure that fellow customer would like to hear PN position on this matter.
Tony
Ps- Why do I have to keep chasing PN to offer a half-decent service?

[#2]

If you incur any extra costs as a result of Plusnet overcharging (e.g. if it takes you overdrawn) and the delay in repaying you, Plusnet will have to compensate you.

[#3]

Jelv,
That is a very reasonable suggestion, but would PN be will to provide such compensation.
My current account charges £2 a day for being overdrawn for the first ten day and also charges £5 for every item handled, over three weeks the total cost would be about £60 -£70 - would PN be wiling to refund such charges. I am still unsure why PN choose to organise their systems so they are unable to stop incorrect debits and then need three week stop arrange a refund.
I am sure customers would like to know PN position on this matter. Does Pn provide full compensation for all losses the customer incurs, when it chooses to continue to collect an overpayment it has been informed is incorrect and then chooses to be deliberately be very tardy in providing refund ?
Tony
PS- Jelv what do think about the way PN continue to standardly  take charges when they are failing to delivering a service, offering to then refund this money after when they finally get around to sorted out the fault. Do you feel PN should alter the way they operate so that when they are failing to provide a service they stop charging the customer for that service from that point and refund (to a bank account note a credit note) any prepayment of that service. Perhaps there needs to be a forum poll on the issue so that PN are more fully aware of their customers opinions on such matters.

[#4]

Quote from: TonyJames

I am still unsure why PN choose to organise their systems so they are unable to stop incorrect debits and then need three week stop arrange a refund.

The primary issue with incorrect debits is that Plusnet  request payment for DD when the bill is raised,  this leaves no time for the customer to query the bill. Once the request makes it into the banking system stopping it is practically impossible.  It's been suggested numerous times to allow a day or more between these events,  but to no avail.
Not making a refund until the payment is received seems reasonable, as it may be declined.
While no comfort, the delays are invariably caused  by the banking system, where the banks like to keep the money for themselves for as long as they can get away with it!

[#5]

Quote from: TonyJames

PS- Jelv what do think about the way PN continue to standardly  take charges when they are failing to delivering a service, offering to then refund this money after when they finally get around to sorted out the fault. Do you feel PN should alter the way they operate so that when they are failing to provide a service they stop charging the customer for that service from that point and refund (to a bank account note a credit note) any prepayment of that service.

I can understand why it would be hideously complicated to suspend the next due payment. If a line went faulty 5 days before the end of the month and was fixed 10 days in to the next month there would bot be enough credit to take them to the end of that month. There would then have to be an out of cycle payment.
However if the fault has not been fixed within 31 days there is no such issue. When the service resumes there would be enough credit to take them to the next billing date. In such circumstances further advance payments should be inhibited and I think it is disgusting that Plusnet continues to take the payments and then makes it so difficult for customers to get a refund before the fault is fixed.

[#6]

Quote from: kmilburn

The primary issue with incorrect debits is that Plusnet  request payment for DD when the bill is raised,  this leaves no time for the customer to query the bill. Once the request makes it into the banking system stopping it is practically impossible.  It's been suggested numerous times to allow a day or more between these events,  but to no avail.

Yes, PN should inform people of direct debits in time for them to cancel if the customer informs them of an overpayment, or PN must be willing to pay compensation for the losses that people incur.
I still feel that waiting three weeks for a refund is down to PN internal processes not the banks systems other organisation manage to turn around refunds much quicker.
I also feel if it is going to take PN so long to process a refund they should start it as soon as they are aware of the overpayment. (if the direct debit was declined then they would find themselves in the position of chasing the customer for the money rather than the over way around but as it was their mistake that caused the situation then i feel they need to be willing to take on that possible inconvenience) it appears I need to trust them to refund money to me but they do not extend the same trust to their customers, even when it is totally PN fault that a refund needs to be made.
Will PN be changing it practices regarding notification of Direct Debits?

[#7]

Quote from: jelv

I think it is disgusting that Plusnet continues to take the payments and then makes it so difficult for customers to get a refund before the fault is fixed.

Yes, jelv.
I do not understand why PN keep taking payment on account that already have built up more than enough credit.
I am also rather amazed they manged to overcharge me after I was assure, on this forum, that an experienced agent would be taking on my case to ensure that everything went smoothly (just imagine what could have happen if it had been a less experienced agent)
I suppose the question to PN is will they be continuing to take extra payments when there has been a sustained failure in service?
I am also still waiting for PN response to my query about how often PN fail to provide a simultaneous provide to new build properties by the the promised date. I was told they were looking into and would provide and answer. I had asked for a percentage.
On this forum does, PN often make a commitment to investigate a question but then fail to respond?
Is saying they will investigate a question, just a way of failing to disclose possibly embarrassing information?
so, PN how often do you fail to provide simultaneous provides to new build properties by the promised date?
Tony

[#8]

Hello Plusnet,

Quote from: TonyJames

On this forum does, PN often make a commitment to investigate a question but then fail to respond?

Yes, today you have notified me that I should allow a further 14 days for you to refund the money to my bank account that you should never have taken.
Still, waiting for the promised answer on how frequently PN fail to deliver simultaneous provides to new build properties?
PN staff have assured me that they act in an open manner and try to keep commitments they make, but on this occasion after waiting and waiting for the a written commitment to be fulfilled, I must again question the whether the commitment given by PN to customers are actual commitments that they intend to met or whether is PN is in the habit of providing customers with information that it now is likely to be incorrect for commercial advantage.
Still, wanting to know if PN would refund losses incurred by customer after it has decided to overcharge (then suggest a solution that would place the customer in breach of your T & C) and also if PN will change the way they collect so this sort of incident can be stopped when reported.I suppose these are two area where PN does not wish to up front and honest with customers.
How often do people find PN have made a 'commitment' which as time passes appears to be just collection of empty words that they never intended to met?
Tony

[#9]

Hi Tony,
Thanks for your time on the telephone today.  I'm glad to hear that eve3rything now appears to be in order and everything that has been promised has been issued back to you.
I've asked for an update on the sim provide issue and I'm sure that you will hear back on that one soon.

[#10]

James,
I have just looked at my home phone on my account and it seem to be suggesting that PN will be charging me again £ 13.99 for line rental in February, even though I have pre-paid with line rental saver, please ensure this does not happen as you charged me for line rental for last month and the promised refund has still not reached my bank account.
It also show various call charges for January which I assume are also a mistake. A line that you told me did not exist. Please confirm that my direct debit for February will be only be for my discounted broadband.
I explicitly instruct PN not to take any other direct debit payments other than for the discounted broadband package. Taking additional  money and then taking over three weeks to refund it will not be acceptable (that is what you did for Janaury)
If you do choose to remove additional money by direct debit from bank  account after this explicit instruction I will be taking legal action against you - it is absolutely unacceptable that you knowingly take money that you know is not your for two months running.
During our phone call you suggested I sounded rather furious in recent post - well please do ensure that PN do not remove any more excessive direct debit payments from my account.
You also promised me that a specific agent would be posting on this site to answer my query of
What is the percentage that Pn fail to provide simultaneous provides for new builds by the date initially promised?
I am still waiting for a answer to this question.....
Please could an answer be provided on this forum as I have now been promised this information by two separate agents. I am sure other forum users would also like to know and would like to seem that PN agents are capable of fulfilling promises that they make to customers.
I have been told on this forum an 'experienced agent'  would be monitoring my case to unsure things went smoothly, yet still PN seem to keep on getting it wrong. - As PN seem utterly unable to provide acceptable service once a situation goes off script, could I suggest you then actually do allocate an experienced agent to monitor the situation to ensure more and more problems do not occur both for me and when other customer situations go off script.
I find it hard to believe that I am again chasing PN for them to simply provide the service they promised and not over charging me for it.
How can PN ensure that this type of situation does not happen again?
regards
Tony

[#11]

Quote from: TonyJames

I have just looked at my home phone on my account and it seem to be suggesting that PN will be charging me again £ 13.99 for line rental in February, even though I have pre-paid with line rental saver, please ensure this does not happen as you charged me for line rental for last month and the promised refund has still not reached my bank account.

The line rental will show on your invoice but for an amount of 0.00 - this is the figure currently shown on your home phone on our side of things, please advise if it shows differently in the member centre?

Quote from: TonyJames

It also show various call charges for January which I assume are also a mistake. A line that you told me did not exist. Please confirm that my direct debit for February will be only be for my discounted broadband.

All of these calls follow from the 15th January this year, which is when the line was activated. The delay on the broadband was because the database maintained by our supplier relating to existing lines for broadband was not updated, this is separate from any related to the charging of calls so I'm afraid while this line may not have shown available for broadband provision it was active for making calls.

Quote from: TonyJames

What is the percentage that Pn fail to provide simultaneous provides for new builds by the date initially promised? I am still waiting for a answer to this question.....

I'm afraid I'm not aware and in any case I doubt very much this information would be provided especially in a public forum. Sorry about that.
Hope that explains in a bit more detail, and I'm very sorry for the way this has gone. Hope it's all smooth sailing from here.

[#12]

Dear Matt,
Attached is the most recent itemised bill shown on my home phone account.
It show a charge of £13.99 for line rental (perhaps this is the charge for January, that has been refunded but then again perhaps as it is on my most recent bill it will be charged for again in March)
I do not want an extra £13.99 to be taken out of my account at the end of the month as I only today got the refund for the extra money you took at the start of this month.
Now before PN completely messed up on providing me with a phoneline and broadband, I was paying for anytime phone package.
You then refunded me the money for this phone package for November, December and January but now you are intending to charge me for the phone calls that I made on the line from 15 January until you finally connected the the broadband and my new phone, broadband and linerental packages started at the start of February. I did not instruct you to cancel any the phone package -you refunded the the money for the whole of January for the phone package but I did not expect you to then cancel the package I though had been running through the month and try to get me to pay for the phone calls at full cost. You failed to connect my phone or broadband in December as you had promised. If you want me make a payment for the call charges in Janaury on a phone line that at the time you could not even locate then I feel the amount if any that you can charge me for these calls is in dispute and I do not wish you to make any charge against them until the actual amount owed is resolved. PN created this messy situation not me.
Matt, you feel dealing with this issue was plain sailing but  I do not feel sufficient rigour was used to deal, with the issue, and yet  again I am having to do the chasing to help PN simply provide a decent service and charge for it fairly.
I repeat again I do not want PN to take any money from my account at the start of March other than the discount broadband charge. Matt can you give  me a commitment that this will happen. If I wait for the bill to be sent PN will then say it is too late for the direct debit to be cancelled so I want this sorted out before the bill is sent out to me.
Matt, two agents have already promised that I will  get an answer to my question about PN failure to be able to provide simultaneous provides to new build properties. Just how embarrassing are the figures??
The first agent said he felt the percentage would be low that Pn does not have a serious failing in this area, but now you seem to be saying that I should disregard the commitment given me by the first two agents; is this because you aware that PN does have significant failing in providing simultaneous provision to new build by the time initially promised.
If there is no significant failing by PN on this issue provide the answer to my question?
If this is an significant area of failing for PN then I understand that you might not want to give a an exact answer but you could acknowledge there is problem and tell customers what steps PN are taking to resolve the  issue.
Please arrange that an answer to my question as has already been promised. Pn's agent should not make commitments they are unwilling to keep. It is what this thread is about.
I will state clearly again I do not give plusnet to remove any money from my bank account in March other than for the charge for the discounted broadband package that I actually owe.
Could I have firm and clear commitment that PN will not be trying to take any other money?
I also note that you have given a refund against my payment of line rental for this year rather than a refund against the line rental for last year. This means that my line rental for this year shows as part paid on my account.
Could you also give a written commitment that PN will not at some time in the future try to claim that money back through direct debit as the item is shown as part paid.
Now, you have a little more information you realise it may  not be quite plain sailing but with a little effort on the part of I am sure these issues can be swiftly resolved - to be honest none of them should have arisen in the first place.

Tony

[#13]

Sorry to seem impatient, but when PN send me notification of my direct debit it will be sent too late for it to be cancelled. I want to know that no errors have been made before you send the notification.
Could an agent actually give me a firm commitment that you will not be charging me in March  for my line rental that I have already paid, as I was charged for it in February and it took three weeks for you to repay me.
The latest itemised bill in my account shows £13.99 for line rental.  It also shows charging for phone calls that should have been covered by my any time phone package.
I really would like a firm commitment that in my direct debit in March I will only be charged for the discounted broadband package and extra unnecessary charges that would have to be refunded at a later date.
I am also still waiting for an agent to answer my question about PN failure to be able to provide simultaneous provides to new build properties by the date initially promised.
Tony

[#14]

Tony, I have zero expectation of you getting any more of an answer than the one given by Matt:

Quote from: Matt

I'm afraid I'm not aware and in any case I doubt very much this information would be provided especially in a public forum. Sorry about that.

I suggest you concentrate on making sure they get the billing right. Perhaps you should advise them of the daily interest rate and the admin fee you will charge them if they deduct too much from your account. I suggest you put it in a ticket so that there is no doubt that you advised them in advance.

[#15]

jelv,
it appear that opinion on whether to provide any information is divide even between PN agents

Quote from: James

I've asked for an update on the sim provide issue and I'm sure that you will hear back on that one soon.

There is also an earlier quote from another PN agent promising to get back to me after investigating further, but it appears to be too far back in thread to quote (any handy hints on how to include this quote would be appreciated)
Just how bad can Pn failure rate be. If there is no real  issue they would have been happy to share, so I must assume that Pn does have significant issue with the dates they are promising for simultaneous provides to new build properties. If PN is aware that such an issue exists it should alter the advice it is providing to potential customers. Frankly if PN deliberately misleading potential customers then it will be a mater for the regulators.
Two agents promised to ensure the issue was investigated and inform me of the results and now after I must assume the investigation has shown a major systematic failing we have a new agent coming along to suggest Pn will not be able to share the outcome of the investigation.
I really did not like the way PN seemed to make promise after promise and then break their own commitment - This failure to provide the information promised is just that another broken commitment.
Hence why want clarity form PN on what they intend to charge me next month, before they issue the direct debit.
Why PN feels it should be able to take people money without an authorisation is quite beyond me. I have learnt that PN is capable of providing on direct debit mistake as soon as it is brought to there attention rather than waiting for the payment to be made by drawing the refund against an older invoice.

Quote from: jelv

Perhaps you should advise them of the daily interest rate and the admin fee you will charge them if they deduct too much from your account.

  Jelv this is great idea. Has any one tried this method and been successful.
What do people suggest? My bank charges £2.00 per day up to twenty a maximum of £20 per month plus £10 for every unauthorised item.
What do PN charge for late payments?
All I really ever wanted was PN to deliver the service that they had promised to deliver at the time they promised to deliver them and to stop trying to charge me over the odds for the services they provide -It really should be plain sailing.
The main issue seems to be PN inability to deal effectively with situation that go off script.
I am still hopeful that PN will start to take on some responsibility and sort out my situation and provide the requested information on simultaneous provision to new build that two agents have already  promised to pursue.
I do hope Pn can start act in a way that will rebuild trust. Hiding the truth and failing to ensure there is no future overcharging does not rebuild trust.
Tony