New customers are ignored by plusnet

[#1]

John,
I do not believe anyone has said that ALL problems discussed on these forums are ALWAYS BTOR's fault.  However in the context of this thread can you explain how the failure to plan the required infrastructure to deliver this individual's service is the ISP's fault?
Do not confuse FAULT with responsibility to manage which legally is always with the ISP.  You are correct, BTOR is failing all ISPs, however many people believe that because BTOR and the two retail ISPs (BT Retail and PlusNET) are co-owned their are special relationships between them which can expedite matters.  This is not the case and indeed (not "opposite" but more profoundly) one bit of BT is unlikely to be beating up another bit or reporting them to Ofcom.
So what other course of action is there to bring about change?  Where there is evidence as in this case, Joe Public has to do the complaining to Ofcom and I suggest to their MPs.  Not only is BTOR not fit for purpose, Ofcom too are ineffectual.  They cannot even tell BTOR to improve if they are so minded to do so unless they can get approval from the EU.  The whole management model is broken and not fit for purpose.
What many will not know is for most contact with BTw and BTOR is that PlusNET have to use an Indian call centre - do I need to say more?
Kevin

[#2]

Quote from: Anotherone

However unless sufficient people complain about a particular problem, of course they won't do anything.

I remember dealing with a customer right in the middle of Scotland. It was an extremely remote village, and Openreach were very reluctant to restore any ports for them. This meant that there was absolutely no resolution date that ISP's were able to give their customers for capacity to be restored. She rounded everyone up in the village and got them all to write separately to OFCOM. Following this, capacity was magically restored within a week. Of course, this could all have been coincedence but it seems like the higher the demand the more success you'll get.
There are occasions where we are responsible for poor management and poor updates, and we should be held liable. To remain specific to the OP, this is an Openreach issue.
@barrytfoster - The work is being carried out for you today. I'm hoping that we will be able to appoint your order soon. I'll make sure we keep you posted.
Matty

[#3]

@Matty
Thanks for a specific example, saved me having to dig around for one to quote.
@Townman
We've both said similar before, and how true it is.
@JohnJB
I trust you have carefully read Matty's comment above. Perhaps it's best if you do a bit more research another time and actually consider the points that are being made. As Matty has said, there are occasions when Plusnet themselves foul up and we are equally as quick to criticise.

[#4]

Quote from: Townman

I do not believe anyone has said that ALL problems discussed on these forums are ALWAYS BTOR's fault.  However in the context of this thread can you explain how the failure to plan the required infrastructure to deliver this individual's service is the ISP's fault? Kevin

Hi, Kevin,
Have to apologise if you took my post as being a too "its all PN's Fault" or "its all BTOR's fault" (it usually a bit of each), but I was replying to someone who unnecessarily suggested that I was talking rubbish!!
Whatever the root-cause of the problem (& I tactfully suggest a re-read of the original post - as well as the Title of these posts), I think that PN could have managed the situation better.
Within this post (& a lot of others) we see references to how the OP hasn't been kept informed, hasn't been updated, given contradictory information,  etc etc etc - often only after the Customer has had to contact PN in frustration (as well as long waiting times). This is NOT BTOR's fault, but PN's fault.
As I indicated in a previous response to yourself, the fact that PN is owned by BT does NOT help them. I strongly believe that the onus is on any ISP, that is badly let down by their subbies (which BTOR effectively is) to jump on them very hard & (in this specific case of BTOR) make formal representation to OFCOM about it (this is NOT the province of the End User).
However, because PN is ultimately owned by BT, I really cannot see the PN Directors sanctioning this.
Obviously, if PN does want to get its customers approaching OFCOM instead, they need to be very proactive & be very open/honest about what the issues are & ensure that information is available in a prompt manner & a form by which the customer can understand.
As a final observation, may I quote an item from MattyC's recent post:-

Quote

I'll make sure we keep you posted

A very good promise, but one that I think that the whole of PN's Customer Service (not just the excellent Reps in this Forum) should be doing!
NB:- I'll now drop out of this discussion as nothing further will be gained (by either side of the discussion)!! 

[#5]

Quote from: Anotherone

@JohnJB Perhaps it's best if you do a bit more research another time and actually consider the points that are being made.

Perhaps if you had bothered to read the OP (which is ALL about frustrations with PN, whether or not the root-cause is with BTOR), you wouldn't make such ill-considered comments!

[#6]

You still haven't read what was being said by me in my initial posts in this thread carefully enough., and I'm not going to waste my time further on that.
But I will point out that my remark about you "talking rubbish" was in direct response to your comments in the context of complaining to OFCOM about Openreach where you said individuals had nothing to complain about and implied it has no effect. Just not true. FACT.

[#7]

@JohnJB,
Fundamentally I do not disagree with you - PN should be doing a better job of keeping their customers informed in such difficult circumstances.  I just wish that the need was not so frequent.  However I cannot see the cause being reduced without substantial changes in BTOR's service delivery standards.
It good to have such a constructive discussion around here - thank you.
Kevin

[#8]

Quote from: MattyC

Quote from: Anotherone However unless sufficient people complain about a particular problem, of course they won't do anything. I remember dealing with a customer right in the middle of Scotland. It was an extremely remote village, and Openreach were very reluctant to restore any ports for them. This meant that there was absolutely no resolution date that ISP's were able to give their customers for capacity to be restored. She rounded everyone up in the village and got them all to write separately to OFCOM. Following this, capacity was magically restored within a week. Of course, this could all have been coincedence but it seems like the higher the demand the more success you'll get. There are occasions where we are responsible for poor management and poor updates, and we should be held liable. To remain specific to the OP, this is an Openreach issue. @barrytfoster - The work is being carried out for you today. I'm hoping that we will be able to appoint your order soon. I'll make sure we keep you posted. Matty

Matty,
Nobody has been back to me about the work OR supposedly carried out on Thursday. My wife spoke to them when they were on our street and they said they were there to repair a broken duct - they had no idea about the work that Plusnet have been telling me is required. Does that mean they have STILL not got round to doing any of the plusnet work?
How are plusnet progressing orders with OR? Nobody seems to be pushing them at all! Is it a case of "wait until they get round to finishing all the BT and Sky customers first"!?
Why can nobody at plusnet tell me what is going on? All I get is apologies - no real information. Are you actually doing anything to chase OR?

[#9]

Hi barrytfoster
Apologies again for the delay in this order, as I completely understand how frustrating this must be
I have chased the Openreach updates this morning, and can see that Openreach contractors were on site at 9am. However there has been some confusion in regards to the resolution, which I am currently chasing
Basically, one set of contractors has stated that the ducting work has been completed, and a secondary team is stating the opposite, as they are unable to complete their "Rod and Rope" work.
As such I have now requested Openreach to update us with what is actually happening with the ducting, and also provide me with time scales of when they hope to have the work completed.
As soon as I have this information, I will ensure to update you
Regards
Matt

[#10]

Update on original post:
I am STILL waiting for information from plusnet. Last week I rang support and was told again that they were waiting for OpenReach to install a new line, but are struggling because there aren't enough free connections in the box on our street - this is completely untrue since my next for neighbour who only moved in one week ago has already had BT line installed and connected and is up and running with broadband.
The chap from plusnet claimed that they were unaware of this (even though I've been telling them this for 2 weeks) and said he'd get on to OR about it. He said he needed ANOTHER 48 hours to give me a response. When I said that I didn't believe I'd get a reply, he assured me quite strenuously that I would. I suggested that plusnet were struggling to keep pace with customer numbers and he got v defensive. I said that I just do n't believe what plusnet are telling me and pointed put that there are LOADS of people on this forum who are not getting the service that plusnet claim. He basically said that with a business so large there are bound to be some people who are let down. I felt as if he was saying that "there's always some people who will have a moan".
Come on plusnet! Get your act together. I signed up SIX WEEKS ago - what is so difficult about putting in a new line?! BT can do it within a week next door!!!!!!

[#11]

As I posted before, make a complaint to OFCOM about Openreach seeming to give preference to other CPs.

[#12]

Matt's post seems to suggest the issue isn't to do with a spare pair in the joint box, but a ducting issue (which can be fairly common on new builds - particularly if the developer didn't follow the OR spec).

[#13]

Quote from: barrytfoster

The chap from plusnet claimed that they were unaware of this (even though I've been telling them this for 2 weeks) and said he'd get on to OR about it. He said he needed ANOTHER 48 hours to give me a response. When I said that I didn't believe I'd get a reply, he assured me quite strenuously that I would. I suggested that plusnet were struggling to keep pace with customer numbers and he got v defensive. I said that I just do n't believe what plusnet are telling me and pointed put that there are LOADS of people on this forum who are not getting the service that plusnet claim. He basically said that with a business so large there are bound to be some people who are let down. I felt as if he was saying that "there's always some people who will have a moan".

This sounds like a bad experience. I'll get the call listened to, and I will feed back.
This is an awkward one. Because it's a new build, I think that there was no infrastructure in place. When a new development takes its first residents, the gas, water, electricity, sewage systems and all necessary utilities are in place before the houses are released to the buyers. The same is not applicable for telephone and broadband services. Because of this we basically had to start from scratch, laying ducting and now what seems to be cabling. Installations of this type are dealt with by the New Sites team within BT Openreach.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going off Openreach's notes; but it was established that the area you were moving into did not have any ducting or cables in place which is why additional work was required. 
As your ISP, it's our job to give them a kick up the backside when they are dragging things out. I'm sorry that you feel that we aren't doing this well enough.
I've tried contacting Openreach now but they're not open. Based on the notes, a large amount of cabling needs doing (4000 metres. Surely that's a typo though, it's probably 400). What I'd like right now is an idea of when it'll be resolved. I've left your correspondence with a priority team, and have agreed that your correspondence will stay there with regular updates until it's sorted.
Matty

[#14]

Several weeks after I was supposed to become a "priority", I am still waiting. All I get is messages saying that I will have to wait another week and another week....
OpenReach seem to be taking their own sweet time to do whatever they want and plusnet are evidently quite happy to sit back and just blame them.
I can't complain to OpenReach because they say I am not their customer and plusnet aren't interested because they say they have to wait for OpenReach. The whole relationship results in abysmal service to me, the customer.
So far I've waited THREE MONTHS and received absolutely zero service. I don't even have a phone line yet.
Can you please do something constructive to bring this to a close now.

[#15]

Quote from: Anotherone

As I posted before, make a complaint to OFCOM about Openreach seeming to give preference to other CPs.

Have you done this?
As you've suggested, PlusNET are "stuffed over" by BTOR and there is darned all you (and apparently they) can do about it.  You might care to write direct to the CEOs of PlusNET, BTOR and BT asking them to explain themselves.  Go up the food chain and take their inadequate responses to Ofcom and your MP.
BTOR are failing the nation and nobody seems able or willing to take them to task, not even toothless Ofcom can do anything without European Union's approval.
It's a total shambles  !