PN & Openreach

[#1]

Not really a problem..........unless you are one of the five hundred.

[#2]

Quote from: AndyH

If an engineer doesn't turn up as scheduled, it's obviously important to understand the reason behind that.

Exactly - so why are customers expecting an engineer - as I am on Tuesday - not advised until they ring PN, who don't know either?

[#3]

When you say Plusnet don't know either, what do you mean?
If a customer places an order and gets an install date, then it's up to Plusnet to inform them if there are any changes to that date. One problem has been the communication between Plusnet and the customer if there are changes - there are no excuses if Plusnet are aware of a change and they fail to inform the customer. This being a classic problem - https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140361.0.html
There are obviously situations beyond everyone's control that can result in missed appointments - an engineer overruns on previous appointments, an engineer's van breaks down, an engineer becomes sick etc.

[#4]

Van breaks down ? you mean they have no spare vans ?
Engineer is sick ? Well the chap who installed my fibre was on a zero hour contract with openreach so I guess they would have no problems in getting a replacement engineer at short notice.
A company that cannot deal with issues like this has no business to be in business at all, a bit of competition is what's needed.

[#5]

Quote from: AndyH

When you say Plusnet don't know either, what do you mean? If a customer places an order and gets an install date, then it's up to Plusnet to inform them if there are any changes to that date. One problem has been the communication between Plusnet and the customer if there are changes - there are no excuses if Plusnet are aware of a change and they fail to inform the customer. This being a classic problem - https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140361.0.html There are obviously situations beyond everyone's control that can result in missed appointments - an engineer overruns on previous appointments, an engineer's van breaks down, an engineer becomes sick etc.

I mean that if an engineer (in my case tomorrow hopefully an sfi) doesn't turn up, PN are not aware until the customer rings the following day and says 'what happened to my 0800-1300 appointment?'
As I've said, the engineers should have contact details for the EU, and if he is going to miss an appointment for any reason, a quick call to that contact number would enable said EU to get back to PN and say 'look, I know the engineer is not going to turn up, could you reschedule?' Or is that not possible.

[#6]

Regarding fibre appointments - this may fix it http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140754.msg1241707.html
If it happens

[#7]

Quote from: jab1

I mean that if an engineer (in my case tomorrow hopefully an sfi) doesn't turn up, PN are not aware until the customer rings the following day and says 'what happened to my 0800-1300 appointment?'

If it just the case that the allocated engineer has been unable to attend, then I am sure there must be some notification from Openreach to BT Wholesale/Plusnet.
I think the issue is that Plusnet wait for the end user to contact them rather than the other way around.
Another issue seems to be that if there is a problem with an order, Plusnet and their systems don't always seem to communicate this to the end user. I had an order for an ADSL service, I rang two days before the activation to make sure everything was good and was told it was, then come activation day, nothing happened. I phoned up and was told the order had been rejected from the outset due to a TAG on the line and that Plusnet's systems hadn't updated to reflect the failed order.

[#8]

Quote from: gleneagles

Van breaks down ? you mean they have no spare vans ? Engineer is sick ? Well the chap who installed my fibre was on a zero hour contract with openreach so I guess they would have no problems in getting a replacement engineer at short notice. A company that cannot deal with issues like this has no business to be in business at all, a bit of competition is what's needed.

So would you expect an engineer on a to make his last install between 12:00-13:00 (08:00 - 13:00 morning slot for the customer) if his van broke down on the way?
Clearly you think 2% missed appointments is unacceptable, however the industry would disagree with you.

[#9]

Quote from: gleneagles

It's quite clear from comments on various sections of these forums that many complaints from customers are down to problems caused by Openreach rather than PN but in almost every case PN will be blamed for the fault. Sky and TT have suggested openreach be split up which may or may not be the answer but I am of the opinion it would be in Plusnet's interest to let customers know on these forums what action if any they recommending to be made to Openreach as the present setup will be costing them customers and in some cases customers who have been with them for sometime. I Have no idea if the CEO of PN reads these forums, perhaps someone can send him a email link to this post.

Bear in mind its not cut and dry as you think.
First of all if openreach fail at their task, yes it is plusnet's fault, they are responsible for openreach service to the consumer.
Second (this one is been worked on by ofcom), Most end users think each engineer visit for a fault is equal, it is not, different modules can be ordered by the isp (which they dont tell the customer), depending on the modules ordered depends on what the engineer will do.  Also another example is openreach compensate isp's for missed appointments, yet do plusnet pass on that compensation? no.
So not black and white as you think it is, and yes plusnet are to blame for openreach failures, as they are the supplier to the customer.
If plusnet dont like been blamed they are free to push openreach harder, order more modules etc.

[#10]

I am not sticking up for Openreach but judging by the situation on my and a neighbour's fibre orders it is very clear to me that Plusnet systems are just not fit for purpose and this is very likely a large part of the problem

[#11]

+1 with what Jim says. You compare Plusnet's systems with those of BT Consumer and they are on a different wavelength. A relative of mine ordered FTTC with BT, a few days before the install there was a problem with the order. She got a text, email and the online tracking told her to contact BT. Does the same happen with Plusnet or do they wait for the customer to contact them after the engineer doesn't show?

[#12]

I agree on the stuck orders thing, when I signed up. my account was left in limbo, as plusnet's order system got stuck, I had to get forum staff to push it along, I wasnt alone, I have read posts where accounts were stuck for months because noone at plusnet noticed it got stuck.  This goes with faults as well when plusnet dont pick up rejected orders until the customer asks whats going on.
BT retail when openreach reject the order I actually think have an automated system in place, as I remember getting a text saying the engineer cannot make it and then another text 1 second later with a new appointment.

[#13]

Quote from: chrcoluk

Also another example is openreach compensate isp's for missed appointments, yet do plusnet pass on that compensation? no.

If you take this up with PN i have found they will compensate
Hopefully if and when this new system of PN ever arrives ( i was first told the summer of 2014 , then summer 2015) most of the order problems will be sorted .
Regards
Mike

[#14]

@chrcoluk,
And your last sentence addresses the point I made in my first post, ie to advise current and potential customers what plusnet are doing in response to openreach failures.
I accept it's unlikely pn will tell us what it is doing to adress it's own failures.

[#15]

I don't think it is right to say that 2% missed appointments is 'acceptable'. No missed appointment is acceptable, however what concerns me is that of that 500 per week, it would appear a large percentage of the affected people post about their issues on the forums. In other words, there are so many people complaining about missed appointments, that if the number is only in the order of 500 per week, it seems an unlikely high number of people complaining about it on the forums.
To me, that would either mean that a significant number of the affected people complain on the forums (it's possible I suppose), or, the number is greater than 500 per week, and Openreach reporting systems are not reflecting the true number of missed appointments.