Plusnet ratings slipping significantly

[#1]

a long time http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/compare.html?isp_77=1&isp_21=1&isp_22=1&commit=Compare

[#2]

Quote from: rongtw

How long Before they get lower than   Talk Talk

Quote from: Oldjim

a long time http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/compare.html?isp_77=1&isp_21=1&isp_22=1&commit=Compare

And that's the problem. As long as their ratings remain above Sky and TalkTalk, the Plusnet management won't be at all bothered how much they slip!

[#3]

Unfortunately PN are on the start of the downward slippery slope ,, soon be too far down to get back up 

[#4]

The issue is being better ran the rest of the volume providers is still best outside of the niche market providers.
On all measures, only AAISP, Zen, Deamon and Elipse out performs PlusNET.  Certainly the first two are markedly more expensive, the other two I know nothing about.  However given that a significant proportion of user satisfaction is predicated on BTOR performance, one wonders how those providers overall get rated better?
Could it be they have more preferential BTOR service levels than the rest of the resellers, or given that they are more expensive, they have more discerning users able to distinguish the difference between ISP and BTOR performance / failure and rate ISP performance more realistically?

[#5]

Or (especially having seen RevK's rants) they give BTOR a lot more grief when things go wrong?

[#6]

...or equally BTOR are simply more responsive to those iSPs than they are to the others?
In respect of my shaggy dog tale elsewhere on here, no amount of concerted grief from myself and PlusNET has effected progress via BTOR, yet I've found obtaining progress through other (outwith telecoms) channels impressingly simple.  I remain unconvinced that BTOR is anything like fit for purpose, is treating all iSPs equally and thereby is a significant factor in perceived poor performance of the volume providers, as evidenced by Sky's recent complaint to Ofcom.
Has anyone seen a response from Ofcom on that matter yet?

[#7]

Despite your regular condemnation of BTOR - deserved to some extent, it is not clear to me that BTOR can be blamed for long queues on Plusnet CS phones, blatantly wrong answers from CS reps, a policy of reduced service as shown by the withdrawal of the ticket system, shorter hours for phone calls and a chat system that sometimes seems slower than email would.
Neither can you blame BTOR for Plusnet's management software which has been going to be updated shortly for longer than I can remember but shows no sign of getting there, That software effects the direct debit system, the referral system, the order placement and monitoring arrangement and the internal communications between agents.
Neither can you blame BTOR for routers not being delivered on time - though maybe it's the Post Office to blame.
It's often pointed out that some large percentage of Plusnet Customers are not moaning on here and are therefore presumably perfectly happy. That is probably because they get the broadband speeds they are expecting every day, all day. That is almost entirely due to Openreach's lines not failing and Openreach's exchanges transferring the data smoothly. When something goes wrong and it get repaired smoothly, that is mostly down to Openreach who do the actual repair. All Plusnet do is place orders for repair and take our money off us - ok, they do some interconnect work as well and provide newsgroups and web pages and voip - - - - - - -- oh well - I can't be right all the time
Oh - and one way of getting more response from organisations like BTOR is to chase them when they slip - to monitor orders that are placed and kick off when they get cancelled unreasonably and generally just take the bother to pursue the customer's best interest.
I recently had a phone problem (no ringtone). My phone supplier answered chat within seconds, checked the line while I waited (a minute or two) and had an engineer ordered before the chat ended. When the line was repaired, they phoned to check that the repair had happened successfully and that I was satisfied. That is customer service and needless to say my phone supplier is not Plusnet - but strangely - is cheaper than Plusnet phone is.

[#8]

Hi EM,
I agree, not all issues are down to BTOR, PN do have their own set of cock-ups.  I do however maintain that BTOR are responsible for a substantial volume of issues and therefore contribute a sizeable volume of the need to phone the CSC.  BTOR performing better would significantly reduce call wait times.
In the 10+ years I've been with PlusNET, both residential and business in my own right and a dozen or so referrals over the years, 95% of the need to phone for service has been down to BTOR service failures.  My current experience relates to nearly 3 months for a simple phone line install.  BTOR charged for a survey and has since done nothing to plan and deliver the needs found by the survey.  They claim to be waiting for the power company to arrange to power down over head cables so that they can work on a joint service pole.  On investigation with the power company, no request has been raised.  In two weeks, I have personally arranged with the power company for the work to be done, which BTOR has not achived in the last 2 months.  Frankly it is not good enough.

Quote from: EnglishMohican

Oh - and one way of getting more response from organisations like BTOR is to chase them when they slip - to monitor orders that are placed and kick off when they get cancelled unreasonably and generally just take the bother to pursue the customer's best interest.

Pray do tell me how to achieve this, because you might know better means than I do.  I have written 3 times to the CEO of both BT PLC and BTOR.  I have not even had an acknowledgement to any one of the six emails.  They did though open up an esclation channel for PlusNET to the BTOR Director of Services Office (DSO) which after a few initial exchanges sought to dismiss the esclation and thereafter have not provided any real or useful information to PlusNET.
Esclation to Ofcom achieved nothing.
There are PlusNET customers who have been waiting over a year for BTOR to get a line installed.  From my experience, they answer to no one.  If you know of an esclation route which works, please do share it with us.  In my personal experience of problematic lines, I have found that PlusNET do seek to address the customer's best interests.  Frankly the volume of BTOR failure makes it difficult to catch every case which goes pear-shaped.

[#9]

Quote from: Townman

I do however maintain that BTOR are responsible for a substantial volume of issues and therefore contribute a sizeable volume of the need to phone the CSC.  BTOR performing better would significantly reduce call wait times.

If what you're saying is correct, then every ISP (that uses OR services) should be encountering the same problems as Plusnet. It doesn't seem to be the case though...
Plusnet have far more issues internally than externally. Their ordering and billing systems are pre-historic and clearly not up to the job. If/when these are updated and improved, I would imagine call waiting times will decrease dramatically.

[#10]

Hi Andy,
Your logic is sound - the greater the size of the user base, the bigger the problem.  May be that's what's caused Sky to take their discontent with BTOR to Ofcom?
I agree that there are issues with PlusNet's sysytems, both internally and in dealing with the interface errors / failures from BTw however I am not persuaded that such issues are responsible for the majority of reasons to phone for assistance.  I've spent 15+ hours over the last 3 months  talking to PlusNET support staff trying to progress an order which has not failed in PN's systems, as some seem to suggest is the main cause of problems.  If BTOR got their act together, that would have freed up 15 hours of support staff time.
Work the sums out - that's more than the revenue from the first year's service.
Cheers,
Kevin

[#11]

Quote from: Townman

BTOR performing better would significantly reduce call wait times.

My suspicion would be that if BTOR did perform better and less calls needed to be made then Plusnet would further reduce the numbers of staff employed to cope with them. Lower costs while still being better than Talk Talk would outweigh better customer service.

Quote from: Townman

BTOR charged for a survey and has since done nothing to plan and deliver the needs found by the survey

I followed part of that saga. I rather got the impression that Plusnet accepted the need to pay for a survey without understanding the rules or much arguement.

Quote from: Townman

Pray do tell me how to achieve this,

Well in honesty I was thinking more of cases like AAISP who have probably forged a working relationship with BTOR's local management, know the rules and chase the right people in the right way when things go wrong. Nothing wrong with that - its not against the rules, Plusnet could do it and probably do do it occasionally. Its just that AAISP make a point of doing it (and charge for it.) I would rarely think that writing to a CEO does any good unless you are a very big customer.

Quote from: Townman

Frankly the volume of BTOR failure makes it difficult to catch every case which goes pear-shaped.

I suspect you imply far more than you can prove. Its what computer systems are for and there was a case quoted on here recently where BT Retail texted/phoned their customer every day with an update. If they can manage that, and AAISP and Zen and the others can manage similar - then perhaps it is Plusnet who are failing rather than the rest that are favour.
And in my turn, I agree that BTOR are less than perfect and OFCOM should be more interested in tackling "problem" cases and thereby raising the average service level provided by BTOR. I see no reason why your installation should be an edge case but it is unforgivable that nobody seems to care.

[#12]

Quote

I suspect that you imply more than you can prove.

Clearly that is a true statement which cannot be refuted, as none of us have access to the actual stats... they would be deemed commercially sensitive.  I have though had frank conversations with support staff: when advised that I have sought to esclate matters to CEOs they have thanked me and stated that mine is indeed not an edge case. 
If things were not so widely bad, there would not be the consistency of failed orders, appointments missed and otherwise delayed installations reported on these forums.
As for the survey fee, whether it should have been charged for is a side debate - the point is BTOR took the money and have done zero about the findings.
...we are in danger of going off topic beyond there are a lot of issues driving customer dissatisfaction, not all of which are within an ISP's control, even if they are always ultimately accountable for failure.
PlusNET have vermently slammed BTOR for their performance in my case, saying its a complete embarrassment to BT.com ... though that still has not resulted in them delivering!

[#13]

Quote from: Townman

PlusNET have vermently slammed BTOR for their performance in my case, saying its a complete embarrassment to BT.com ... though that still has not resulted in them delivering!

Have Plusnet made an official complaint to OFCOM?

[#14]

Unlikely that PN would complain to Ofcom about the performance of a sister BT company.  It is one of the reasons the UKTUG will submit to the Ofcom in its consultation that Openreach should be wholly split off from BT.  I've been exposed commercially to BT installations since 1985. The poor performance of the infrastructure side of things (aka OpenReach) has not improved, except briefly in the City of London when they had real competition from Mercury and COLT. I've seen many cases like Townsman's where BT and its front companies have put more effort into evading blame than if they simply got on with the job and fixed the install in a timely manner.

[#15]

Quote from: AlaricAdair

I've seen many cases like Townsman's where BT and its front companies have put more effort into evading blame than if they simply got on with the job and fixed the install in a timely manner.

Sadly BT are not alone in this.  Its the British style of accountancy lead / managed businesses - what can I get away with not doing- unlike American companies who are litigation lead - what am I obliged to do and how much will it cost in litigation if I do not fulfil my obligations?
As an ex-systems and software engineer, I was regularly dismayed at the decision making basis of avoiding visible cost of fixing things, as opposed to ignoring the hidden costs of dealing with the symptoms.  There is far too much calculated risk taking rather than being risk adverse!