What a damn shambles PlusNet is in.

[#1]

Having spoken to my bank they inform me that under the direct debit agreement over payments can be credited back to account in a couple of hours. They can't understand where the 10 working day wait comes from and suggest it's the trader delaying refunds.

[#2]

Hi glloyd, I'm unaware of the intricate details but I'm aware that it takes that long due to how our billing system works I can assure you we're not deliberately delaying your refund.
I have actually checked your account today and a payment is still showing as pending which prevents me from requesting the refund. I will be checking this again tomorrow. If you prefer I can request a refund by cheque but please bear in mind such things are done manually and may not be done any quicker.

[#3]

Personally I'd have let the payment go through and waited for the refund rather than cancelling DD's and potentially confuddling the already somewhat temperamental Plusnet billing system any further.
(Then I'd have haggled for a months free callerID or something for the trouble !)

[#4]

The maximum time, even under the old BACS system should have been 4 days. Any time over that is due to the companies 'internal hanging on to your money system'. Personally I use the DD guarantee system to recover money claimed in error.  There is no need to cancel the DD and the refund is normally the same day you notify your bank. The downside of this, depending on the company means you may have to make the payment by alternative means to keep a continuous services. Most companies though either claim again for the correct amount or add it to the next DD claim. I have been threatened with court action by a local council before now for  non-payment due to their error. My response was I will see you court as I had a live DD mandate for them on my account.. Strangely enough they suddenly could take two payments at once of the correct amount, despite all the claims to the contrary prior to that.

[#5]

I agree with Spider.
The reason the money is credited (often within minutes) when using the DD Guarantee is because it is the bank that returns the funds who then, in turn, approach the company for a refund.
I would still like an answer from PN from my question in reply #13. Would they expect a manual payment (not charging £1.50 for the privileged), take the money by DD at the next available opportunity or add the amount to the next bill without causing the customer any loss of service?

[#6]

Adam, it's the principle as much as anything. Had I missed a payment PlusNet would be all over me like rash with threats of being cut off etc. Lets face it the billing system is rubbishg and not fit for  purpose and has not been for a very long time yet you continue to take on customers that will sooner rather than later break the system.

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_

Hi glloyd, I'm unaware of the intricate details but I'm aware that it takes that long due to how our billing system works I can assure you we're not deliberately delaying your refund. I have actually checked your account today and a payment is still showing as pending which prevents me from requesting the refund. I will be checking this again tomorrow. If you prefer I can request a refund by cheque but please bear in mind such things are done manually and may not be done any quicker.

[#7]

Quote from: Mav

I agree with Spider. The reason the money is credited (often within minutes) when using the DD Guarantee is because it is the bank that returns the funds who then, in turn, approach the company for a refund. I would still like an answer from PN from my question in reply #13. Would they expect a manual payment (not charging £1.50 for the privileged), take the money by DD at the next available opportunity or add the amount to the next bill without causing the customer any loss of service?

Is anyone from PN going to answer Mav's question that was posted three days a go? I feel this question is very important , especially for customers who have to "lend" ( could be up to nearly 3 weeks , including weekends)  PN their money when bills are incorrectly over charged.
Regards
Mike

[#8]

Hi all,
Just talking to our billing team about this to get an answer for you, sorry for the delay but as I'm sure you can appreciate this is a fairly sensitive (and emotive!) area. I'll be back as soon as I can.

[#9]

Right, just had a word and as ever with these things it's a bit more complicated than it seems.
For a chargeback to be issued the customer has to contact the bank and give them a reason for it. We get a code from that, and what we do depends on the code we get - you can see the codes at https://gocardless.com/direct-debit/receiving-messages/ (section starting from "DDICA messages" I believe).
So we get the notification and will check the account, each one is investigated on its own merits based on the code received as above and also the account is checked to see what's happening..
In all cases, a ticket is left with details so our team can contact the customer. The only times an account is disabled as part of this process is if there's no reason for the chargeback.
The ticket pool is worked daily so while contact can sometimes be outside of 24 hours from when we receive the chargeback notification it's far more often within that timeframe.
Hope that helps explain.

[#10]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

Quote from: Matt

The only times an account is disabled as part of this process is if there's no reason for the chargeback.

Who decides and by what criteria and is this only after discussions with the customer?
There's a bit of a grey area within the Direct Debit Guarantee regarding Incorrect Payments from what I can see. It caters for payments/dates that do not match the advance notice but I can't find any reference to where the amount/dates do match but the customer disputes this amount anyway.

[#11]

Hi Mav,

Quote from: Mav

Who decides and by what criteria and is this only after discussions with the customer?

Our billing team, basically, and the criteria will depend entirely on what's happening on the account and the code received. No, this is prior to discussing things with the customer.
Worth adding at this point that we'd rather have the customer get in touch and give us a chance to sort any issues rather than issuing a chargeback, though.

[#12]

And so we go back to the beginning - You notify the customer that you're taking more than you should and you expect them to take it on the chin and lend you the money for two/three weeks.  Should they not wish to, or be in a position to, lend you the money they are expected to spend hours tying to get through on the phone where they will likely be told "it's the way it is".
Not exactly reasonable is it?  

Quote from: Matt

Worth adding at this point that we'd rather have the customer get in touch and give us a chance to sort any issues rather than issuing a chargeback, though.

Go on then, how do you sort the issue?

[#13]

Matt,
If a customers is over charged (even though advance payment info , and payment taken is the same amount , but the advance payment is incorrect) and they do a chargeback from the bank , as the do not want to "lend" PN money they are not owed (not sure what code that would be). Do PN see this as a reason for a valid charge back ?
Regards
Mike

[#14]

@pwatson - Two things there. One, you seem to be discounting the fact that I explained these are investigated on a case by case basis and the account may not have been disabled - and also where I mentioned the customer is, in by far the majority of cases, contacted within 24 hours. The other is that it'll depend entirely on what the situation is. In some cases unfortunately it may not seem reasonable, but in others perfectly so.
I can't really answer your question as you're not mentioning a specific issue and I'm afraid I'm not going to try and imagine every possibility and give you an answer for each one.
@I.T.Works - if there is a discrepancy in the amounts then yes I believe it is seen as a valid reason, though I can remember occasions where we've caught this ourselves and proactively notified customers along with explaining what'll be done to resolve the situation.

[#15]

Matt - Post 1
Nothing to do with disabled accounts... 
I think my description of the scenario is sufficiently precise to warrant an answer rather than a brush off personally!