When will Plusnet offer FTTP?

[#1]

@Townman Couldn't have put it better, and that is why PN/BT are loosing customers.

[#2]

@Townman I entirely concur with your general evaluation of BT as an entity but still how does it make sense for them as a group to be spending all of this money to start installing FTTP all over the country so that they can then retire high cost to install and maintain but slow for data speeds copper only to keep one of the broadband tools in their stable completely and utterly focused only on selling copper based (in terms of the final connection to each home) broadband.

Answer it can't make sense so either their refusal to rollout FTTP to Plusnet customers is only short term and will be reviewed if and when the likes of what they see as direct low cost competitors like Now Broadband start offering FTTP or at a certain point they will solve the problem including the massive damage they have done to the Plusnet brand as anything other than a cheap "That'll Do" entity by retiring it completely.

Although there is always the Procter & Gamble and Unilever multiple washing powder brands school of marketing (the idea being this makes it harder for a new competitor to establish its brand in the marketplace) on the other hand when up against the likes of Sky and TalkTalk BT Group also needs to try to firmly establish its brand as the strongest one in the marketplace.

So in the long run it can 't make sense or be sustainable to market the BT and EE brands against each other and surely in the end BT needs to become the home phone and broadband product and EE the mobile phone and data only brand or ultimately they need to merge everything in to a single brand offering all these things,.  As to where can Plusnet find room to fit in with this complex strategy well in the long run sadly it quite clearly can't and the recent withdrawal from YouView and the continued failure of BT Group to allow it to sell FTTP at all seem to amount to the almost inevitable "Writing On The Wall".

Of course BT could sell off the Plusnet customer base to Sky thus allowing it to keep Now Broadband as a now enlarged lower cost Sky brand of a more viable marketing size. However there is probably no value in a sale of Plusnet to TalkTalk given that TalkTalk is already uniquely identified as being a cheap but lower quality telecoms brand..............

[#3]

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@Capvermell wrote:

@Townman I entirely concur with your general evaluation of BT as an entity but still how does it make sense for them as a group to be spending all of this money to start installing FTTP all over the country so that they can then retire high cost to install and maintain but slow for data speeds copper only to keep one of the broadband tools in their stable completely and utterly focused only on selling copper based (in terms of the final connection to each home) broadband.

I understand some of your positioning on this Topic, but have a very different perspective.  The existing copper based Telephony network is now well past its enhancement potential both in terms of performance and deployment so something has to move to match growing consumer needs?  Currently the industry in most developed countries see Fibre as the most beneficial technology to adopt for new deployments, with a number of countries (inc. UK) having active plans to remove the old copper when the criteria are right.  (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/05/openreach-to-stop-selling-copper-phone-in-118-areas-go... ).  There are lots of other major movements in the Fibre market, so I believe that the migration to Fibre is a sound and logical investment.  Take a look here for an overview https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/category/uk_isp_news/

Although there is always the Procter & Gamble and Unilever multiple washing powder brands school of marketing (the idea being this makes it harder for a new competitor to establish its brand in the marketplace) on the other hand when up against the likes of Sky and TalkTalk BT Group also needs to try to firmly establish its brand as the strongest one in the marketplace.

Check the ISPReview articles above.  SKY and Talk Talk are not BT's major competitors at the Network level other 'hungry' competitors hot on the trail.  BT has always been significantly stronger in developing the technology whilst their marketing is not so creative in using it! 

 As to where can Plusnet find room to fit in with this complex strategy well in the long run sadly it quite clearly can't and the recent withdrawal from YouView and the continued failure of BT Group to allow it to sell FTTP at all seem to amount to the almost inevitable "Writing On The Wall".

What can I add? 

[#4]

Whilst it is interesting to speculate on game plans, there's nothing assured in life!

One option I've just contemplated is the possible total demise of BT Retail as a B2C brand.  Consider the realistic possibility that Ofcom calls for a clear division of the BT group where supply and retail are entirely separated (as many believe sensible).  BT could be then solely infrastructure and wholesale ... with retail repositioned under a new flagship ... called PLUSnet!!

[#5]

@Townman 

Surely what you are suggesting has already happened to the extent that BT has already had to remove the word BT from Openreach to give the false impression to the public that it is now in some way wholly independent of its network arm as a business and won't favour BT Retail over other ISPs (as of course it in practice continues to do along with BT still being allowed by the weak as water ASA to falsely claim its wifi is superior to competitors in some undefined way).

But anyway if as you suggest BT withdraws from supplying services to the consumer to facilitate retail competition and concentrate on developing its network then there won't any BT owned ISP in the marketplace whether it be called BT, EE or Plusnet.  But were it to withdraw the use of BT from the Retail Marketplace on Ofcom's insistence (because of the strange fuzzy trust some technophobic members of the population associate with the default market incumbent) then it would obviously focus on newer, jazzier and cutting edge tech linked EE and not brand name dinosauar Plusnet that BT has already totally destroyed consumer confidence in by causing an immediate association with being cheap and technologically obsolete..........

[#6]

If BT sold off Plusnet to Sky, the chances are I'd leave anyway.

[#7]

Why would you leave them if Plusnet was bought by Sky when it is already owned by, and has been for many years, by the equally dastardly and over powerful BT Group?  Plus Sky is no longer run by the Murdoch family but by the US Cable Operator Comcast.

Also having moved from Plusnet ADSL2+ to Now (Sky LLU) ADSL2+ with Now Tv/Broadband I can say that the ADSL2+ has performed much better and more consistently than it ever did on BT Openreach's equipment at the same exchange.

The main mystery I don't understand though is why ADSL2+ prices are now being ramped up to much higher levels by all the providers while FTTP prices are not falling appreciably despite its rapid rollout.

The net result of all this is that any single person households reasonably near a decent mobile transmitter are going to move to an unlimited or large data allowance mobile data plan for all their internet use and shut down the landline.

Only families with two children or two or more young adults still at home are going to think the costs associated with an FTTP connection's are a no brainer.

Also the only FTTP sold at a reasonable price are the bottom couple of speeds that are little faster than FTTC or mobile data.  Whereas to shoot FTTC and mobile data out of the water they should be wanting to sell the fastest speed to all households but charge those who use masses of data more for the privilege as happens with gas, electricity and water......

As FTTP is now available from BT and BT Owned EE it makes no sense at all it isn't available from Plusnet..............

[#8]

In an interview with Uswitch on 16^th February Sam Calvert, Marketing Director of Plusnet, said that Plusnet would introduce FTTP during 2021 along with a new wireless router. Let’s hope that this does happen. Here is the quote:

Calvert said, “2021 is going to be a big year for Plusnet - we are continuing to simplify our product range so we can invest in developments to improve our reliability - such as a new wireless router, and the launch of full fibre (FTTP). We’re also continuing to simplify our website and apps so customers can make the most of these digital channels.

Here is a link to the interview:

https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/news/2021/02/look-inside-Uswitch-Broadband-Provider-of-the-Year-Pl...

[#9]

@martinsturmey Both Plusnet and Now Broadband (who I am now a customer of after leaving Plusnet for them last June) have to introduce FTTP soon or they might as well as sign their own death warrants in relation to the long term future of their brands, especially for those customers who live in areas where they only have access to FTTP broadband (many recent new housing estates) or customers who only have a choice between ADSL2+ or FTTP (my area which is a countryside area of rural villages where FTTP has been overlaid alongside the copper).

Having said that the cheapest price for FTTP has to be made the same price as for ADSL2+ (and not by raising prices from ADSL2+ levels to FTTP levels as TalkTalk has done) in order to encourage customers to upgrade to FTTP.  Also FTTP minimum contract period needs to be no higher than for ADSL2+, although in BT's case 24 months for all their fixed line broadband products is quite ridiculous, when with Now Broadband its either 1 month or 12 months.

I asked the CEO of Sky Jeremy Darroch when FTTP was coming to Now Broadband and the answer was simply no plans so far and no information beyond that.  However has to be said the deal from Now Broadband of 16Mbps ADSL2+ with unlimited anytime calls to landlines and mobiles including line rental for £18 per month minus £100 Quidco cashback (paid and received) so net £10.08 per month was very cheap.  Even from this June in Year 2 it will still only be £18 per month but still with the free unlimited anytime calls (up to 60 minutes) to landlines and mobiles) that you can't begin to match value wise on any FTTP broadband product.

Really think they should be offering 40/10 FTTP at the same price as ADSL2+ if they want us to upgrade so they can eventually turn off their expensive (use a lot of electricity to fun) copper phone and broadband network in the long run

Also I note that EE (also owned by BT) also offer FTTP broadband to their customers and only Plusnet is the Cinderella of the BT family by not being allowed to offer it so far.................

[#10]

Hopefully they make their minds up soon; my deal for ADSL2 runs out in June and as ALR is no more ,I'll be looking around.

I can now get FTTP so I'd stay with PN "If the price is right "- otherwise FTTC with Now for 12 months looks a runner.

[#11]

Do you really have the choice of FTTP or FTTC?

Usually you get whatever BTOR have installed in your locality. Very few properties are served with the choice of both.

[#12]

We’ve had both cables for 3 years.
Only now can we get fttp.

I think all new connections use fttp
Essentials packages are probably just capped but use fttp cables

[#13]

@Townman  Many locations that can get FTTC have had FTTP infrastructure built so now have the choice. On the other hand some newer estates have only FTTP and no copper at all, and some rural areas with no FTTC or too far from the cabinet have had FTTP available for years.

[#14]

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@Townman wrote:
Do you really have the choice of FTTP or FTTC?
Usually you get whatever BTOR have installed in your locality. Very few properties are served with the choice of both.

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You are, of course, assuming it is only BTOR installing FTTP. We currently have both a BTOR (FTTC) install and FTTP, recently installed by a local ISP. The rollout of that round these parts has been pretty impressive.

I've even been surprised on where they have been installing it as well. Unlike the FTTC which just served the bulk of properties, FTTP is being run down lanes to remote houses even. Since the FTTP was installed, FTTC has come over as so yesterday. Yes, I am paying £5 a month more (I could have gone for the cheapest option and saved £5 a month (for 120Mb/s) but for 500Mb/s (up and down) and a busy household, bit of a no brainer really. And no price increases for 2 years. 😀

[#15]

Currently I'm on ADSL2+ with PN. I can get various of flavours of FTTC from almost every ISP including PN.

As far as FTTP is concerned ,the house isn't yet connected but others in my road have had installations from BT and Sky at speeds up to 900Mb.

IF PN make an offering of FTTP, then I'll weigh it up vs FTTC from the likes of Now. 

One of my neighbours has kept his "old" FTTC connection with Sky and added FTTP with BT so presumably it is possible to have both (altho' not sure why you would want the expense !)