install let down - what's going on

[#1]

my phone number is included in the ticket response
I expect to hear from you re: the following points
1.  what you are going to do, and what needs to be done, so that I can transfer my services elsewhere
2.  I want to know when you are refunding all of my money
3.  I want to know how Plusnet is going to handle any payment necessary e.g for a new telephone line with sky
4.  why you have completely and utterly wasted my time and money
and then I don't want to ever hear from your company ever again

[#2]

Mod Note: Threads merged.

[#3]

Adam's updated your other thread with some new information. Basically your exchange and cabinet are enabled and live for Fibre, however when we checked on your phone number it was showing as unavailable in your area (hence Adam's previous response). This message is incorrect and it *is* available, but as the line is a new one it's not yet showing up for us to place an order.
Adam's going to check again in the morning, and contact our suppliers requesting they update their records to show your line is available.

[#4]

I'm glad to say that our supplier's systems have updated and fibre is now available. Can you please let us know either by a reply to this thread or the open ticket on your account if you'd still like to go ahead and I'll get that arranged for you.

[#5]

Adam / Chris,
Are there lessons to be learnt here for migrations from Sky?
In what circumstances should a MAC code migration be utilised for transfers from Sky (or for that matter other providers using a mixture of LLU and BTw lines)?
How might the applicability of differing methods of migration be communicated to new customers and CSC / sales staff, so that experience's such as Meem's are avoided?
Would it be correct to say that in order to assure continuity of services, under no circumstance should a migrating customer themselves cancel their existing service provision - either before or after placing a migration order with PlusNet or for that matter any other supplier?  If this is correct in all circumstances, how might PN better communicate this to new customers?
I do not claim to understand all of the variations, but from what I understand from reading many similar stories on the forum, I believe the following is true - and will inevitably lead to delays in provisioning a new service for any BTw provisioned ISP - and therefore should be avoided...
1. Terminating services provided by an existing provider will place a cease on the phone line and may give rise to a BB cessation charge
2. No new order (from PN or any other ISP) can be placed on a line having a cease notice until after the line has been ceased
3. If the phone line is LLU the phone line will when ceased be released back to BTw and will take time to 'reappear' in their systems, until which no data service provision can be ordered, also the existing number might be lost
4. In these circumstances, new service provision charges for both phone line and data might (are likely to) be applied
Is there a benefit to be derived from taking any of the above into a (the) migration FAQ.

Cheers,
Kevin

[#6]

Quote

In what circumstances should a MAC code migration be utilised for transfers from Sky (or for that matter other providers using a mixture of LLU and BTw lines)?

We'd need to use a MAC if it's a shared LLU service as that usually means that the broadband is based on a BT Wholesale product. Full LLU would not require us to use a MAC.

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1. Terminating services provided by an existing provider will place a cease on the phone line and may give rise to a BB cessation charge

That's correct, however the losing provider in such a transfer shouldn't need to place any cease orders.

Quote

2. No new order (from PN or any other ISP) can be placed on a line having a cease notice until after the line has been ceased

That's right, a cease order raised by a losing provider would also cause the cancellation of any in-flight orders with another ISP that may be trying to take the services over.

Quote

3. If the phone line is LLU the phone line will when ceased be released back to BTw and will take time to 'reappear' in their systems, until which no data service provision can be ordered, also the existing number might be lost

It's transferred to BTW rather than ceased and number porting is separate to that process.

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4. In these circumstances, new service provision charges for both phone line and data might (are likely to) be applied

They can be if the phone line has been ceased altogether, yes.

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Is there a benefit to be derived from taking any of the above into a (the) migration FAQ.

Not in my opinion as this actually falls outside of what is strictly known as the process of migration (i.e using a MAC key) I'm sure we'd look at adding some FAQ info more specifically if a lot of issues with LLU migrations were noted. It's obvious we have a few that have cropped up on community over the past few days but we're not aware of any widespread issues that might lead us to change our approach on how we handle these at the moment.

[#7]

Adam,
For complete clarity...

Quote

We'd need to use a MAC if it's a shared LLU service as that usually means that the broadband is based on a BT Wholesale product. Full LLU would not require us to use a MAC.

How would an in-bound user know if they are on shared or full LLU?  How would PN's sales unit know this so as to be able to give the correct advice?  There have been numerous examples here on the forums of not knowing if a MAC code is / is not required when "moving" from Sky / Talk-Talk et al.  When it goes wrong it is a mess, requiring time from the 'experts' to fix and substantial delay (and expense) to the end user.  Prevention would be better than cure - less resource consumed and a much happier customer.

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...the losing provider in such a transfer shouldn't need to place any cease orders

If the subscriber terminated their service with the existing supplier, would that supplier place cease order irrespective of the subscriber's intention to "migrate"?

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Not in my opinion as this actually falls outside of what is strictly known as the process of migration (i.e using a MAC key)

I understand (and would agree) within your technical definition of migration however I suspect that users have a different perspective - they already have the services on "their" line, they just want to pay the bills to a different provider.  The complications of the transfer of undertaking - depending on how / who delivers the current services - might well be beyond their understanding.  Given your reply above, knowledge of if the move is a true migration (using a MAC code) might not be visible to them, therefore looking elsewhere might not be on their (or indeed PN's support staff's) radar.
Might I suggest that some though be given to providing a "special provisos" section in the migration FAQ - at least to clarify that there are special circumstances considerations which may make the "transfer" less than straight forwards.  If nothing else, how about a universal "Do not cancel anything with your current supplier until the transfer is complete" written in BOLD RED LETTERS ?
Cheers,
Kevin

[#8]

Hi meem,
I'm glad to say that I've just been able to place a fibre order for you and have updated your ticket.

Hey Townman,

Quote

How would an in-bound user know if they are on shared or full LLU?  How would PN's sales unit know this so as to be able to give the correct advice?  There have been numerous examples here on the forums of not knowing if a MAC code is / is not required when "moving" from Sky / Talk-Talk et al.  When it goes wrong it is a mess, requiring time from the 'experts' to fix and substantial delay (and expense) to the end user.  Prevention would be better than cure - less resource consumed and a much happier customer.

I'm not sure each and every LLU customer would be aware of that but if a customer is talking to our sales team about it we should be asking them so we can make sure the right process is followed and that the correct expectations are set.
I've just been talking to Chris about this and whereas we're not sure what form this could take yet we'd like to see some nice, clear information for customers about LLU migrations for the same reasons our sales guys should be covering this when relevant.

[#9]

Hi Adam,
Thank you - right result I think!!  I look forward to learning of the publication of such guidance material.  This might be a specific consideration to be pushed over the those developing the new provisioning system.  Would be good (if possible) to get some AI in there which can cater for these variations.
@Meem,
You've had a bit of a rough ride, largely I suggest down to the added complications of knowing what type of service you were on with Sky (LLU or not LLU).  You'll see for the answers to the above questions is that some things in the arena of transfers is not black and white and some of the complications arise from the characteristics of the 'loosing' supplier.  Now that everything is cleanly in the hands of PN, I am sure that you will see a brighter future on the assumption that BTOR drop no balls.  Whatever you do, good luck and take care if you opt for a different provider using LLU.
Cheers,
Kevin

[#10]

In my case... I spoke with somebody throughout the process of making my order, I specifically asked if I should do anything with regard to Sky, made it clear that I already had fibre from Sky.
I knew full well that when I went to Sky they took over my name, hence I specifically asked questions about this area.
That, plus my phone number and address is more information than many people may have been able to provide (since I work in IT and have a technical background)
So clearly there's a problem somewhere in the process.
Much of the subsequent problems probably stem from the support team being ridiculously over subscribed (not that that is my problem, nor should I have to make allowances for that)
My order had failed and stalled but nobody bothered to let me know. It's only when I called to confirm my appointment slot did somebody finally tell me that the installation had been cancelled. The subsequent botched re-orders probably stems again from the fact your support team is overworked/under resourced, but again that is not my problem. The cost, inconvenience and frustration I have borne as a result of this mess is unacceptable, and whilst people have apologised, it's only come after I have gone to great lengths to make contact (50 minute duration call on the first day), or repeatedly made angry posts on here that somebody has taken any kind of action. It's also been excuse heavy, "our contractors made a mistake... somebody else did X, somebody else did Y, "you might think us telling you that you cant have fibre when we previously said you could is contradictory, but it isn't!"
Not once has somebody been straight with me and said Sorry, we dropped the ball. We have to re-earn your trust and hope to keep your valued custom for years to come. That would be a genuine apology and a good place to start

[#11]

And as if my point needed further reinforcing... Since I stopped chain calling and adopted a slightly less irate tone on these forums, I've now gone 3 days without response to my ticket. This really isn't good enough, and a credit against the (already promotionally discounted) first month of service is really not sufficient for the likely pain and inconvenience that i am going to experience when tied down by contract to you for 18!!! months.
I would like that phone call you mentioned previously and i want to hear the steps and process involved for getting my fibre service elsewhere.
I simply have no confidence in PlusNet to 'do me right', nor do I believe that you have the physical capacity to make good on these failures moving forward

[#12]

Quote from: meem

In my case... I spoke with somebody throughout the process of making my order, I specifically asked if I should do anything with regard to Sky, made it clear that I already had fibre from Sky. I knew full well that when I went to Sky they took over my name, hence I specifically asked questions about this area.

no way to edit it seems.... that should say "I knew full well that when I went to Sky they took over my *line*

[#13]

Adam's replying to your ticket now. Apologies for it not being picked up over the weekend, that's because it was with Adam as a 'personal' ticket meaning that it wouldn't be visible to the support staff until they specifically looked for it.

[#14]

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_

My only aim is to get you up and running as soon as humanly possible. When I know I have an order in place I'll refund the first month of fibre subscription a a gesture of good will. How does that sound? Adam

Hi Adam/PN,
Just a reminder about that first months refund that you offered still needs actioning, thanks.
So, three months into the service and things are looking very different than they did in November! It was a painful month/introduction, but once the service was actually activated it has been very stable (I can't recall any outages-which is a good thing, I remember how long those telephone queues were!) So stability is good, which is great. I'm not sure if real world web usage is noticeably faster (20MB Sky Fibre => 38MB Plusnet) - is there anything on my profile that might not be fully tuned?
Now a few other questions

• Can I get my credit limit (telephone calls) changed? I actually want it reduced to something like £5 or £10


• If an exchange is active for BTInfinity (etc), will Plusnet be available too? I am moving house soon, I don't want to lose fibre and I am happy with the PN service. The broadband checker on rightmove only shows speeds for BT, Virgin and Sky, so....


• How about if I want to get in on FTTP?

thanks

[#15]

Hi meem,
Glad to hear that your experience has improved with us! I'm sorry the refund for the first month of your Fibre service hasn't been refunded yet. I've arranged that now and the money should be credited back to you within 7-10 days.

Quote from: meem

I'm not sure if real world web usage is noticeably faster (20MB Sky Fibre => 38MB Plusnet) - is there anything on my profile that might not be fully tuned?

Can you clarify this please? Is this in regards to your usage being higher on our Fibre service?

Quote from: meem

Can I get my credit limit (telephone calls) changed? I actually want it reduced to something like £5 or £10

Yes, we can lower it to £5 or £10, however, we do recommend a minimum of £20 as Call Barring would be applied if you went over your credit limit and it then costs £5.76 to remove this when you pay the outstanding balance.

Quote from: meem

If an exchange is active for BTInfinity (etc), will Plusnet be available too? I am moving house soon, I don't want to lose fibre and I am happy with the PN service. The broadband checker on rightmove only shows speeds for BT, Virgin and Sky, so....

Yes, if an exchange is active for BT Infinity then Plusnet Fibre services should be available as well. If you're choosing to continue with Plusnet services in your new property then when you call us to arrange this our house-moves team will be able to run the necessary checks to find out if Fibre is available at your new property.

Quote from: meem

How about if I want to get in on FTTP?

We can check if FTTP is available at your new property, however, if your property can receive FTTC then it's highly unlikely that FTTP is available as well.