BT Line Box attached to window sill

[#1]

Hi All - Looking for some sound advice please if anyone has had similar issues. To cut a long story short, our council house is due to have windows replaced in a few weeks time. Our phone/broadband line box is screwed to the inside of the back window frame and the wire inside exits the outside, up the wall and along to the telephone pole. 😒

I can see this causing a problem for the window fitters and I don`t want to be allowing them (non BT Openreach engineers) to be unscrewing this box and trying to fit a new window frame in while the wire may be old or indeed, get damaged by their working around it. The line box has been in this location for goodness knows how long and now possibly going to cause a problem if either (a) they are not actually allowed to tamper with it? and (b) if they do, who`s then responsible for any fault they may cause?

I may be making a mountain out of a molehill here but I feel worried that due to it`s location, it`s going to be problematic. I found a few online stories regarding the same issues and thought I should ask the same question here incase i need to be calling Plusnet. I`m hoping not. Thanks for any feedback you can give. 

[#2]

@plusmouse 

I bet that this is not the first time that the window fitters have come across this problem. Is it still a council house and the windows being replaced by the council's contractors? If so I would assume that it's the council's responsibility if they cause any damage. There's nothing to stop the fitters taking the top off the box and removing it from the frame but they are not supposed to touch the internal connections. If this causes damage then if it were me I would complain to the council and get them to call Openreach out and pay their fee.

.If the property is yours and it is you who are getting the windows changed then I'm afraid that it's up to you how you handle the cost of any repairs, should they be necessary. If you need it rewiring by Openreach then you will need to arrange it through Plusnet.

I would leave it and see if any damage is caused. If the fitters remove wires and refit them so that it works after they finish the job then I suggest that you find something else to do in another room whilst they get on with it. Ignorance is bliss!

[#3]

Thanks for your reply Baldrick1. I`ve done some googling around since posting and your correct that window fitters will no doubt have come across this issue before and yes, the house is still council owned, we rent it. The master socket is a Mk3 and the (grey two core wire) I can see on the outside is pretty loose (not attached properly to the wall outside as it`s years old) but works fine. I`m no expert on these things hence my anxieties over it but all I can do is speak with them before the window in question is removed and that they know what they are doing. Covid restrictions doesn`t allow us to be in the room the men will be working in so I`ll have to trust they will unscrew the master socket, somehow work around the issues the wire inside might cause and HOPE they can just refit the master socket again with no harm done. 

I`ll be calling their office tomorrow to put this very question to their commercial admin person and ask that a supervisor can call beforehand to reassure us. If they can`t, they won`t be touching the window! 😎

[#4]

@plusmouse 

Given the probable age of the OpenReach wiring you could contact PlusNet to see what the chances are of getting OR to replace the existing connection (probably via a hole drilled in the wall).

Brian

[#5]

@bmc 

You have missed out the important bit: ‘without charge’. No doubt Plusnet can get OR out but I’m assuming that @plusmouse doesn’t want a big bill for the job.

[#6]

Charges for this sort of work is covered here - https://www.plus.net/help/legal/plusnet-price-guide-for-residential-products/#phone-converting-your-...

[#7]

Good morning @plusmouse

This is something we'd be able to raise with Openreach on your behalf, and is called a Master Socket Relocation. An engineer would come out and discuss the problem with you before relocating the master socket and wiring that leads to it.

This would come at a cost of £160.00 which we'd have to take prior to booking this in. If you'd like to go ahead with this, please contact our Provisioning Team.

[#8]

Thankyou so much everyone for your replies, I appreciate the feedback. @adam945 - Thankyou for this information and the costing. I have spoken to the window company this morning on the phone and they gave their usual reassurance that when they remove the window frame, they will take care not to damage the master socket that they will have to unscrew from the frame and leave it (in her words) hanging and then reattach it to the same frame once done. 🤔

That all sounds fine, but I`m in that `what if` frame of mind that if something was to go wrong, who is then responsible for the damage or indeed, the OR £160 cost for relocating the master socket and line? Or any repair? I imagine they would be or the council, but worse case scenario for me would be the time it might take to sort any issues and who is at fault. It certainly wouldn`t be me!

[#9]

Legally you are the subscriber so you are liable. You might have remedies against the persons commissioning the work. It’s unlikely that you have any remedies against their contractors.

Certainly Plusnet will not pass any charges on to third parties.

[#10]

@plusmouse 

I know a PlusNet staff member has replied but I would get them to speak to OpenReach and see what their policy is in these matters.

After all, it probably would have been OR who placed the master socket on the window so is it not their job to move it now the window needs replacement.

And, as previously mentioned, this can't be the first time OR will have been asked about this so they hopefully they may have a policy.

Brian

[#11]

My worry is that things `might` go wrong and if I find my phone line and internet are down after the window is replaced, (I can check that the phone line is humming at least) to show there is a live connection afterwards before they get into their van and leave. Paying OR £160 to relocate the master socket at some point in the future would be an option for me, but the problem is the window is being replaced on the 1st July! So I feel a bit rushed.

@bmc - I take your point bmc and I agree that OR would have originally put the socket where it is located many years ago before we moved in which was around 35+ years ago! I`ve had a few OR engineers out just to check the line and then add a new face place to the old backplate so I was able to connect an internet cable to the socket as well as a phone line to prevent using those small devices that allow extra cables to connect to one socket. 

It would be good to know I could contact someone should things go pear-shaped and know that the fault is not mine to put right at cost as it`s not me doing the damage? But I realize that could be a can of worms legally of who is or who isn`t liable should that actually happen. 

@Townman: You might have remedies against the persons commissioning the work. 

Will that will be the council Townman who are contracting this company to replace the windows? 

[#12]

@plusmouse 

I suspect you may have left it too late but surely the time to re-locate the Master socket would be before the new windows are installed. That way nothing can go wrong, you potentially can get the socket in a better location and no holes need be drilled in the new window frame. I appreciate there probably would be a £160 cost to this.

If you can hear the line "humming" could this be a potential fault. One thing PlusNet do when diagnostics on a fault is to request you run a Silent Line test (or whatever it's called!). If you hear a noise then there's a potential fault.  Look on the PlusNet portal under Troubleshooting for more details.

Brian

[#13]

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@bmc wrote:

If you can hear the line "humming" could this be a potential fault.

---

In the context in which it was written -

My worry is that things `might` go wrong and if I find my phone line and internet are down after the window is replaced, (I can check that the phone line is humming at least) to show there is a live connection afterwards before they get into their van and leave.

I think the OP meant listening for dial tone.

[#14]

Hi @plusmouse 

My thoughts are, if something goes wrong and the Openreach equipment is damaged within your property, we can raise a fault with Openreach to arrange an engineer visit to put it right, and we'd pass on a call out charge of £65 to you. 

You could then try to get a reimbursement off the company, who's arranging the window work, if you're going through the council I'd imagine it'd be them, but it may be more of a question to ask the council something along the lines of "If the contractors damage my property, do I claim off you or the contractors?" 

If there's a good chance nothing will go wrong, you could take the above approach. Depending on the council's/contractors response or if the window replacement work isn't possible without likely damaging the telephone socket/wiring, then arranging a master socket relocation for £160 would seem to be the way to go. 

I hope this helps.

[#15]

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@plusmouse wrote:

@Townman: You might have remedies against the persons commissioning the work. 

Will that will be the council Townman who are contracting this company to replace the windows? 

---

You really ought to write to the council on this matter.  I suspect that there are more than a few legal niceties here...

• The Council is commissioning the work
• They have a duty of care to due the work, with care in a professional manner
• If they damage your personal property, it would be reasonable to argue that they have a liability to cover the cost of rectifying that damage
• You have advised them that there is a utility service point in the way of their work
• Technically neither they nor you may interfere with the BT circuit termination
• It is a mute point who is responsible for addressing the issue to prevent damage to the BT circuit - the council doing work on THEIR PROPERTY or you as the subscriber to the service, as it will be you who (as far as Plusnet / BT is concerned) is responsible for damage to the service

See the T&Cs ... https://www.plus.net/help/legal/terms/#phoneTerms 

4.1. We'll carry out standard installations of phone lines for the appropriate connection charge as out in the Price Guide. These connection charges do not cover extensive new construction works (such as external work). Also for work such as installing or moving a phone socket additional charges as set out in the Price Guide may be payable. However, we'll always aim to advise you of these charges before any work is undertaken.