Broadband irregularity

[#1]

@RealAleMadrid - OK

[#2]

Just the 2 hours tonight..... broadband at the moment appears to be stable from about 18:30.

Apologies to whom it may concern with regards to my adding the ticket details to a previous post. As an irregular 'poster' I wasn't aware of this. I wrongly interpreted the information that was requested.

I live on the top floor of a block of flats which consist of 3 storeys. While broadband was down I saw one of my neighbours on the first floor. They have been experiencing exactly the same problem. I'm not 100% sure but I think they have BT as their provider.

So, what does that suggest?

Is somebody using something at that particular time? Is something being automatically switched on at a particular time? is it something internal or external?

How on earth can it be proven?

Gary

[#3]

@gdp007 No problem with the misinterpretation of the request - actually, that added detail may come in useful. We got there in the end, anyway.

It certainly looks like something which is not properly wired/connected is being used at that time. It doesn't matter who your neighbours ISP is - 99% of ADSL/FTTC connections use the BT network, and even if they didn't this would most likely still affect them.

Finding and proving the culprit could be very difficult though - no-one is going to monitor things that closely on the off-chance it might happen.

[#4]

Because of the current regularity of problem it does suggest something being switched on and off. As you quite rightly say trying to find and prove it is another thing.

I did find an article which mention a term REIN which i believe is about electrical interference. In the article it did mention about using an am/mw radio positioned near the hub and tuned in to a specfic wavelength. In normal operation it would emit a crackling sound but when interference was detected it would emit a high pitch sound. Way beyond my knowledge.

It looks as though at the moment I will have to continue to monitor and see if the current trend continues.

Thanks for everyones replies in response to my initial question.

[#5]

It is not a nice situation to be in! Once for me a gas boiler caused this issue a relay was creating a noise spike everytime the gas was ignited.

During the drop events have you checked to see if there is any noise on your landline phone dial 17070 Option 2

The log file you attached showed the DSL Link Down events on these dates

19 July start 15:45 end 18:06

28 July start 17:45 end 18:18

5, 6 7 Aug duing the times already posted.

Regarding REIN do you have a Openreach 5c master socket with a MK4 faceplate? The MK4 faceplate is supposed to have a RF filter built in.

Another feature of the 5c is the connection between the test socket and the faceplate can become loose and the faceplate needs to be reseated to make a good connection.

HTH

[#6]

I haven't tried checking for noise on the landline. I will try that when the next occurence happens.

Thanks for extracting the days/times. That will be helpful in building the picture of the problem.

Yes, I do have the Openreach 5C master socket. The Openreach engineer checked it yesterday on his visit. When its was first installed I remember the engineer saying that it had a built in filter.

Gary

[#7]

Yesterday 9/8/2022 the Broadband connection changed pattern with previous days. The problem lasted for around 3 hours. See the attached photo. The pattern of the fault did change. The down time has been between approx. 3-4 mins. But as you can see between around 17:15 and 18:40 it was hardly drawing breath between coming up and down.

Also a new addition was that at around 21:40 Broadband dropped for around 7 minutes. Which is the first time it has occurred outside the 16:00 to 19:00 time period during the 5 days that this has been occurring.

I did check the landline with the 17070 option 2. There was no noise to be heard.

The neighbours had Openreach check their setup and also the cabinet across the road was checked and no problems found.

it’s an interesting if frustrating problem! That is difficult to know how to resolve?

Gary

[#8]

@gdp007 

Is your Hub Two connected to the master socket or to an extension? In any case can you connect you Hub Two to the test socket found behind the faceplate? You will need an inline ADSL filter for this. This is the demarcation point between the home wiring and Openreach. This will also help to see if the problem is internal or external to your property.

This issue needs looking into further by Openreach as it is clearly not resolved so I'd phone plusnet again, waiting for someone from plusnet to pick up a fault here can be time wasting.

Regarding Johns statement "Also, it is very much easier for those trying to help if you provide screen shots rather than .csv or .txt files".  I tend to disagree with this as csv and text files will provide the whole history which helps with a full diagnosis rather than snap shots, however for the Information or status page would be best as a screen shot. 

Dan

[#9]

Morning, been watching this thread for a day or so. Whilst I would normally agree that this sort of dropping is usually caused by external interference e.g heating and a/c units , there is so much headroom on the noise margin (~20db) that it would take a LOT of noise to increase the error count to a point where the line drops. Also there's apparently no noise on the phone, and the line resysnchs at very similar noise margins ( ok so it could be transient noise).

How about a cabinet fault, line card or maybe even a fibre link fault causing loss of transmission ?

So why could it be intermittent, only at certain times of the day, and why only just starting recently ?

Completely off the wall here, but could the recent extremely hot weather have overstressed something in the cabinet.

@gdp007 at what time of day does the sun hit the cabinet ? if it gets warm at that time of day then maybe its tipping the overstressed component over the top ?

You say other people in the block are experiencing similar problems, they will definitely be connected to the same cabinet but do you know if any others in the locality are affected ?

[#10]

Hello,

I’ll try to respond to both of your points but if I don’t cover them all then apologies.

The router is positioned approx. 2 metres from the master socket and is a direct connect. No extensions involved.

When the Openreach engineer came on Monday he tested the master socket and found no problems. Although, after contacting Plusnet this morning i found that it had been recorded as having been fixed. But, they have opened the problem again. I’m monitoring it for 24 hours and the Plusnet contact is going to call back in the morning to check. Then escalate the problem to Openreach again if it is still occurring.

I understand from my neighbour that yesterday Openreach tested their master socket and the cabinet and found no faults. I had a quick chat with him as he left and explained the similar problem I was having. But he seemed as flummoxed as the engineer who visited my property.

The overheating does sound like a viable theory. The cabinet is pretty much opposite we’re I live. So, I would think the cabinet is in the sun from mid to late morning. As I understand they haven’t found a problem with it.

As for it being a local problem. None that I am aware of. I also would think that if it was occurring in the general area the Openreach engineers would have either been out to lots of calls or be aware of it?

I agree it is puzzling why the fault occurrence started on the 5/8/2022 and has carried on doing so roughly between the same time span.

it will be interesting to see if it again repeats later on this afternoon(10/08/2022). If so Plusnet will be aware and I guess Openreach will be involved as well.

in terms of electrical content in the property. Nothing new has been added that is attached to a mains supply. There are no items that are triggered by a time. The items are much as they have been for a long time.

Up until the 5/8/2022 everything has worked fine. Minor blips with broadband connection but only very short term. Nothing as significant as what is currently occurring.

Gary 

[#11]

@gdp007 might be worth trying the automated fault reporting system if/when the problem repeats itself again.

Text HELP followed by your landline number to 07800008121.
e.g. HELP 01234567891

If you can do this whilst the fault is present, then it does an automated test (almost) immediately. It might then pick up the fault

https://www.plus.net/help/report-a-problem/broadband/

[#12]

As I mentioned before I live in a block of flats. I spoke to the person living on the ground floor this morning. By chance I found that he has Plusnet but he has the older router. It seems as though he hasn’t been experiencing the problem.

I think the older style router was for non fibre connection? 

Does this suggest why the problem would occur on the newer router and not on the older one?

Am I getting closer to what the problem might be?

Gary

[#13]

@gdp007 if the neighbour doesn't have an FTTC connection then that would point towards a problem in the cabinet. An ADSL connection does not go through the FTTC cabinet, it goes all the way from the PCP ( phone junction box ) back to the exchange as copper. An FTTC connection has links from the PCP to the adjacent FTTC cabinet.

If the problem is external electrical noise then you would expect an ADSL connection to be affected in a similar way.

Can you confirm what Plusnet product the neighbour has, if it's just ADSL then it should be called Unlimited rather than Unlimited Fibre ?

[#14]

Unfortunately, they were on the way out so can’t ask at the moment.

Last night while looking for possible solutions I came across some software called Netspot. I downloaded the free version. Not quite sure what I was expecting to see and understand.

There are three Plusnet users showing on it. Two of them including mine have two entries one for 2.4ghz and 5ghz. The other one has an entry for only 2.4ghz. Would the entry with just the 2.4ghz indicate an ADSL only line?

My tech. Knowledge is non existent so excuse the dumb questions?

Gary

[#15]

The 2.4 & 5 ghz references are to the wifi signals it can find. Nothing to do with the connection between router & internet, except that they come from the router.