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DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

simon_mcqueen
Newbie
Posts: 3
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎09-12-2022

DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

I'm getting timeouts from the Plus DNS servers and hence dreadfully sluggish responsiveness with pretty much everything. I've tried 212.159.6.9 and 10 and 212.159.13.49 and 50 and they are all look to be the same, and look like:

C:\Users\SimonMcQ>nslookup www.msn.com 212.159.6.10
Server:  cdns02.plus.net
Address:  212.159.6.10

DNS request timed out.
    timeout was 2 seconds.
DNS request timed out.
    timeout was 2 seconds.
Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    a-0003.a-msedge.net
Address:  204.79.197.203
Aliases:  www.msn.com
          www-msn-com.a-0003.a-msedge.net

I note the Plusnet Hub One (which is what Wor Lass seems to have here) doesn't let you set an alternate DNS. I've tried turning it off and on and again.

Is there any route to get this investigated? The connection settings just now are:

Broadband username:	graciegirlpixie@plusdsl.net
TCP/IP settings
Broadband network IP address:	51.9.179.41	 
Default gateway:	172.16.19.109	 
Primary DNS:	212.159.6.9	 
Secondary DNS:	212.159.6.10	

Is there possibly a 'Hub Two' or anything like that that my other half might be able to request that would let me set the DNS to something else that works better?

TIA for any help anyone can offer!

20 REPLIES 20
simon_mcqueen
Newbie
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Registered: ‎09-12-2022

Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

... sorry - should of course have made clear other DNSs do not appear to be timing out similarly from the same vantage point. See for e.g:

C:\Users\SimonMcQ>nslookup www.google.com 8.8.8.8
Server:  dns.google
Address:  8.8.8.8

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    www.google.com
Addresses:  2a00:1450:4009:81e::2004
          172.217.169.4

 

seebee
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 107
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

I've not looked for a while, but I often used to see DNS losses with the 4 PlusNet DNS servers, but not with the 2 PN SafeGuard DNS servers (which I typically use) nor public ones like 8.8.8.8 / 1.1.1.1 / 9.9.9.9 etc

For example with this list of DNS servers:

 

pi@rPi3b:~ $ cat testdns.txt
# The two PN SafeGuard
213.120.234.42
213.120.234.38
# a Google
8.8.8.8
# The four PlusNet
212.159.6.10
212.159.13.49
212.159.6.9
212.159.13.50

 

At random times I might see some or no loss with the 4 PlusNet servers, but never with SafeGuard or Public servers.
Eg using a Raspberry Pi on an ethernet cable and "dnseval" from https://dnsdiag.org/ I have just seen:

 

pi@rPi3b:~ $ dnseval -f testdns.txt bbc.co.uk.
server             avg(ms)     min(ms)     max(ms)     stddev(ms)  lost(%)  ttl        flags
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
213.120.234.42     14.786      13.638      16.265      0.816       %0       197        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
213.120.234.38     14.064      13.451      14.792      0.457       %0       135        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
8.8.8.8            14.668      14.159      15.491      0.495       %0       115        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.6.10       38.829      13.715      176.905     54.580      %10      149        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.13.49      22.663      12.845      82.081      24.044      %20      145        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.6.9        14.257      12.833      19.940      2.112       %0       145        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.13.50      16.823      13.568      26.457      4.426       %10      145        QR -- -- RD RA -- --

 

and

 

pi@rPi3b:~ $ dnseval -f testdns.txt bbc.co.uk.
server             avg(ms)     min(ms)     max(ms)     stddev(ms)  lost(%)  ttl        flags
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
213.120.234.42     17.798      13.546      38.783      8.445       %0       86         QR -- -- RD RA -- --
213.120.234.38     13.540      13.223      13.979      0.257       %0       72         QR -- -- RD RA -- --
8.8.8.8            14.433      13.744      15.312      0.545       %0       292        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.6.10       14.904      13.639      18.238      1.630       %30      146        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.13.49      14.536      13.477      16.467      1.034       %30      138        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.6.9        43.527      12.875      195.738     58.600      %10      135        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.13.50      14.745      13.695      17.180      1.163       %10      133        QR -- -- RD RA -- --

 

and

 

pi@rPi3b:~ $ dnseval -f testdns.txt bbc.co.uk.
server             avg(ms)     min(ms)     max(ms)     stddev(ms)  lost(%)  ttl        flags
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
213.120.234.42     14.223      13.199      15.545      0.800       %0       300        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
213.120.234.38     13.974      13.466      14.392      0.277       %0       263        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
8.8.8.8            14.013      13.700      14.754      0.318       %0       193        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.6.10       62.386      13.052      218.889     72.698      %10      122        QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.13.49      21.716      13.067      83.026      21.591      %0       60         QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.6.9        24.804      13.292      65.956      16.796      %0       60         QR -- -- RD RA -- --
212.159.13.50      17.453      13.345      38.413      7.703       %0       121        QR -- -- RD RA -- --

 

So some loss at some times with the 4 PlusNet servers -the percentages are high as I'm only sending 10 packets, but if I try 100 packets for example I might see 1% to 3% loss with the 4 PlusNet servers, but zero with SafeGuard and others.

@bobpullen Sorry to bother you, but I think you are the network expert, so can you see similar or have any idea why it only seems to happen with the 4 normal DNS servers?

(Sorry for the messy text, but I've not worked out how to format wide pastes like this!)

bobpullen
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@seebee - I do see similar on my own monitoring, however it seems to have been a relatively new development (last few months). There is a larger piece of work going on behind the scenes that I expect will make the issue 'go away', however I can see if somebody can take a look in the interim.

Remind me next week.

Edit: e.g. this is 12 DNS requests every 300s on my own network: -

Screenshot 2022-12-09 18.09.04.png

 

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

seebee
Aspiring Pro
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Registered: ‎08-07-2017

Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

Regarding my messy pastes above - there is a fix to stop long lines from wrapping here from @Townman 

seebee
Aspiring Pro
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@bobpullen Hope this isn't too early for a reminder Smiley

I use smokeping to monitor pings, but I'd never tried it with DNS lookups, so I had a go and I saw overnight between 1.0% and 2.8% loss with the 4 normal DNS, and zero with the 2 SafeGuard ones.

PN 4 DNS 2 SG.png

(Raspberry Pi3b, Ethernet, ADSL, IP in 51.9.x.x)

bobpullen
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@seebee - thanks, now raised internally under ref: IMT-8230.

Edit: to clarify, I also have a direct comparison in my own monitoring and my observations match @seebee's - started around September time.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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HPsauce
Seasoned Pro
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

I'm intrigued by this as I've seen some odd delays recently, especially receiving emails, specifically very slow finding and talking to email servers (not PlusNets) of which I use a number at various services.

It's particularly noticeable, probably because of how send/receive works, on my iPhone.

Sometimes at home I just give up, turn off my phone's WiFi and use 4G. This happens to have a similar base speed in my area to my PN connection. But it works so much  better!

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@seebee 

Thank you for the work here - this provides objective metrics to matters of concern seen before, which I have not been able (had time to) measure.  This is a subject which has been under discussion with Bob over recent weeks.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

simon_mcqueen
Newbie
Posts: 3
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Registered: ‎09-12-2022

Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

Thanks to all, particularly for the replies which I've read with interest.

My original problem case was that I rocked up to my partners flat (which has the Plus connection) with my work issued Windows 10 laptop and connected it to her network as I've done on many previous occasions (for e.g 16-18 November when all seemed to work fine). Prior to this time it had been connected elsewhere (my home) and working fine. I'd speculate this network switch could well cause a bit of a cache clearing event, surely starting with the Windows DNS one but maybe also some or all the browser content ones. In any event, first time page loads in Chrome of typical pages (which means the massively heavyweight cross-site Javascript laden monstrosities that make up almost all the modern www) were very noticeably sluggish right across the board. Lots of status bar "resolving..." and frequently Chrome identifying that pages were unresponsive and asking if I wanted to wait or kill them. 

Having checked that connectivity and speed wasn't an issue (all fine) I suspected name resolution might be. The nslookups seemed to confirm minimally that things in that area weren't happening reliably/quickly so I figured I'd ask about it.

I'm away from where I can test to see if the issue persists unfortunately but (*iff* this wasn't a localised problem affecting me) the impact *might* be visible if one were to flush the machine DNS and then the browser caches (or maybe use an anonymous browser tab/session) and then follow up with some generic browsing. If it's still happening but you haven't had  a lot of complaints I could only imagine that caching must be cushioning most users from it because it was startlingly bad.

I'll be back in Glasgow on the 21st so I'll test all this myself then and report back. 

Thanks again to all who took the time to read!

bobpullen
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@simon_mcqueen - suspect there was something else contributing to the problem if it was so blatant. What's being observed in mine and others monitoring though certainly won't be helping.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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bobpullen
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@simon_mcqueen & @seebee - how are things looking now?

There was some work carried out over the festive period and my personal monitoring looks much better now, displaying zero loss and decent round trip times for the Plusnet DNS resolvers.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

seebee
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@bobpullen yep, looking good for me too, zero DNS failures on all the 6 DNS servers, for the last 10 days. Thanks.

seebee
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

@bobpullen 

On a tangent - the SD card in my Raspberry Pi failed so I rebuilt it over Xmas. "dig" (which smokeping calls) is giving me results SOMETIMES of 9ms DNS resolution time, which I'd think impossible as I've always seen my ADSL line have an inherent delay of about 13ms (eg pinging gstatic.com or 1.1.1.1 etc).

I'd be tempted to say its something in the recent version of the rPi build. Don't suppose you see "too short" DNS times in your monitoring?

eg

$ dig @212.159.13.49 gstatic.com.

; <<>> DiG 9.16.33-Raspbian <<>> @212.159.13.49 gstatic.com.
...
gstatic.com. 68 IN A 216.58.212.195
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; SERVER: 212.159.13.49#53(212.159.13.49)
...

then

$ dig @212.159.13.49 gstatic.com.

; <<>> DiG 9.16.33-Raspbian <<>> @212.159.13.49 gstatic.com.
...

gstatic.com. 180 IN A 142.250.187.195
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; SERVER: 212.159.13.49#53(212.159.13.49)
...

yet

$ ping -c 100 -q 212.159.13.49
PING 212.159.13.49 (212.159.13.49) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- 212.159.13.49 ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 99155ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 12.278/13.911/50.144/3.969 ms

So the smokeping charts are a bit "castellated"!

Zero loss though, which is the important bit.

pn dns 9ms to dot49.PNG

seebee
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Re: DNS timing out from all the Plus servers

After looking a bit harder, I'm pretty sure this is a problem with my "dig" command.

It is not related to PN DNS servers, I see the same with 1.1.1.1 for example.

$ for n in {1..30}}; do dig @1.1.1.1 gstatic.com ; done | grep -F time
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec
;; Query time: 9 msec
;; Query time: 19 msec

 So dig is only telling me 9ms (which I think is impossible) or 19ms.

 

If I use the "-u" option to dig, to make it give answers in microseconds instead of milliseconds, it seems to give much more believable results:

$ for n in {1..30}}; do dig -u @1.1.1.1 gstatic.com ; done | grep -F time
;; Query time: 19334 usec
;; Query time: 18390 usec
;; Query time: 18704 usec
;; Query time: 19279 usec
;; Query time: 18448 usec
;; Query time: 18586 usec
;; Query time: 19222 usec
;; Query time: 18407 usec
;; Query time: 18830 usec
;; Query time: 19326 usec
;; Query time: 13941 usec
;; Query time: 15118 usec
;; Query time: 14309 usec
;; Query time: 14134 usec
;; Query time: 14326 usec
;; Query time: 19068 usec
;; Query time: 18895 usec
;; Query time: 19229 usec
;; Query time: 18694 usec
;; Query time: 19321 usec
;; Query time: 18690 usec
;; Query time: 19534 usec
;; Query time: 19450 usec
;; Query time: 18931 usec
;; Query time: 18081 usec
;; Query time: 18632 usec
;; Query time: 18633 usec
;; Query time: 17768 usec
;; Query time: 18800 usec
;; Query time: 18844 usec

 

 So fastest of 13.941 ms and several 14ms, 18ms, 19ms - all seem much more likely.

I only noticed this since rebuilding my Pi to the latest version, so it must be something on my end Smiley