Drop out at the same time every evening

[#1]

@Baldrick1 

Again not disagreeing it will be interesting to see if the drop moves to around 19:00 from tomorrow !

[#2]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

What I noticed is that whilst the connection is reportedly droppimg every day at the same time, sync has not been lost for almost exactly 3 days.It is also trying to pick up again with a lowly 3dB upsream SNR suggesting that there is a lot of noise on the line.

This suggests to me that the cause is something local that is switching, most likely on a time clock, each evening.

@Wildroverandy 

Do you have anything that is switching at this time such as a central heationg boiler? Also is the hub located away from appliances such as a TV?

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Hi @Baldrick1 

Hmm, nothing like that I think. It is near the TV, inevitably though, as that's where the viewing area for the room is best, and where the power and phone line are. Not really much I can do about parting them much further. But as far as I can see, there shouldn't be anything particular doing a clock cycle at that time.

It's not the time of the heating system, the only other timed widget is the Smart Meter display, but that doesn't sleep until 21:00.

Other devices are in use (such as FreeView box, or the AppleTV), and the TV is of course on..

I can look at getting a Hub Two I suppose, but I'm in limbo with that at the moment. I'm on standard Fibre at the moment, and being in a rented house, we have not been able to attain permission to switch to Full Fibre yet (the owner is fussy about some things, and probably concerned about losing the landline).

My contract is up early in the new year, and at the moment I am planning to stick with PlusNet, but that will depend on whether we get an offer to renew at a sensible price - I note that everyone is pushing the FF contracts now.

Although I am also considering options that include TV (such as the EE deals).

I can try reverting back to the Hub One, it's OK for most of it, and I do try to use Ethernet as much as possible (even with PowerPlugs). Although this does occur when that is used too.

Not sure about the noise, as I say, the speeds we get are very good, and stable (72/19 is normal), until these evening dropouts. We also have underground cables that aren't too old, and checking audibly on the landline phone, is dead quiet (no crackling or hissing etc.).

Thanks all, 

[#3]

@Wildroverandy 

It could be external to your property.The fact that that it only happens at this time still makes me think that the cause is electrical noise. One thing that you could do is revert to your Hub 1 and run the Routerstats dsl monitoring package during this time in the evening to see if you can capture the cause. See http://vwlowen.co.uk/RouterStatsHub/routerstatshub.htm. Routerstats will not run on a Hub 6 or Plusnet Hub 2. The Plusnet Hub 1 is basically a BT HH5A. If you need help with this please ask.

If your contract expires early in the new year you may find that Plusnet are reluctant to give you a Hub 2 for the P&P charge unless you take out a new contract.

The traditional landline phone service is being switched off at the end of next year, so I'm afraid that your landlord will have to accept the change soon, regardless of whether an upgrade to full fibre is implemented.

As the router event log is showing these drops it will affect all forms of connection, be they wireless, Ethernet or Ethernet via powerline devices..

[#4]

@Baldrick1 thank you for all off that. I've reconnected the Hub One now, and will see how that goes over the next few days.

Seems like I'll be making an easier decision come the new year then.

I'll report back when I know how this performs.

Cheers.

[#5 · Accepted solution]

I suggest that part of the answer is already reported on the forum - see https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-A-BT-Smarthub-An-Update/m-p/1867066#M31556

[ I found this by searching for pbthdmw.bt.m ]

[#6]

@Townman  - that does answer a lot there, thank you for that.

Sounds like it's time to abandon using the older BT hubs then perhaps. I did notice that the Firmware was at a very low release number (something like 0.01).

I'll stick with the PN Hub One for now then, and see what we do in the new year when it coms to the contract renewal (I suspect I'll probably just insist we get the FF package).

Cheers.

(not sure if I can say it 'fixed' my issue, yet, but it has given an explanation).

[#7]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

The traditional landline phone service is being switched off at the end of next year, so I'm afraid that your landlord will have to accept the change soon, regardless of whether an upgrade to full fibre is implemented.

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OK, so I just got a renewal invite for my existing ‘traditional’ Fibre+landline package. How come they’re offering me 18 and 24 month contracts if the line is going to be ceased?

Surely an error there!

[#8]

@Wildroverandy  It isn't an error, Openreach rules allow an existing landline service to continue until such time as the PSTN phone service is withdrawn. The timing of this is somewhat unknown, it could be the end of 2025 or even 2027 for some exceptions.

Plusnet could of course make their own decision to stop offering PSTN phone at an earlier time and I assume they would give some advanced notice of when that would be. Whatever happens the contract will probably end before the 18 or 24 month term is completed.

[#9]

Thanks, that makes more sense now.

[#10]

Ok, despite me already trying the old Hub One router a few weeks ago, having changed it back again this time seems to have resolved the issue to some extent.

It's not dropping out in the evening now, but we are still, albeit less frequently, getting a drop-out at more random times. It happened today during the day.

It could be happening more often, but it's not at a time we're noticing it.

I wasn't able to use the suggested diagnostic software, as we've only got Apple devices available here, so not able to obtain anyone data it seems.

I'm still mulling over the options for contract renewal at the moment. Apart from this occasional drop-out, the speeds are so good on normal Fibre that I'm reluctant to change anything. Certainly not to switch to a similar speed for similar money (current offers aren't greatly competitive, but not far enough off that I wouldn't stick with PlusNet).

Thanks to all.

[#11]

If you can g fo ind away of running a windows shell on a Mac, the BTHH5a version of routerstats works with the PN Hub1.

[#12]

@Wildroverandy 

It would be handy for the Hub One connection stats to be recorded, they are found under

>Troubleshooting >Helpdesk

You should be able to copy paste the text.

Depending how long the Hub One has been switched off the firmware version might be out of date, current version is 4.7.5.1.83.8.289.1.3 this device might have dropped of the management system if it is an extended period, but this will not be an issue.

To check for DSL drops you look at the Event Log select category PPP it should be possible to copy paste the text if you wish to share the events. With DSL drops you should notice the Hub 'b' light flashing

Just a reminder with the previous BT Hub the messages regarding  pbthdmw.bt.m were not likely to be the cause of the DSL drops.

[#13]

Hi @Dan_the_Van 

Thank you. I'll start by copying what I think is relevant info, and go from there.

Here's some info from the Helpdesk screen:

1. Product name:	Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:	+081441+NQ64012900
3. Firmware version:	Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.289.1.3 Last updated 09/09/24
4. Board version:	Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:	2 days, 00:13:05
6. Data rate:	19999 / 79904
7. Maximum data rate:	32810 / 98368
8. Noise margin:	15.3 / 8.4
9. Line attenuation:	14.7 / 12.8
10. Signal attenuation:	14.6 / 12.8
11. Data sent/received:	22.7 GB / 191.2 GB

And the nearest I can find for the PPP information (there's no PPP header, but I found this under WAN.

20:11:19, 04 Nov.	(787877.750000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
20:11:19, 04 Nov.	(787877.750000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
20:11:18, 04 Nov.	(787875.900000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
20:11:18, 04 Nov.	(787875.890000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
20:11:18, 04 Nov.	(787875.870000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
20:11:18, 04 Nov.	(787875.870000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
20:11:18, 04 Nov.	(787875.870000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
20:11:18, 04 Nov.	(787875.860000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.180000) PPPoE is up -​ Down Rate=79904Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.7dB, Up=15.3dB
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.160000) CHAP authentication successful
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.110000) CHAP Receive Challenge
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.110000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.100000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.100000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.090000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.090000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.090000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
20:11:16, 04 Nov.	(787874.090000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
20:10:24, 04 Nov.	(787822.150000) PTM over DSL is up
20:09:48, 04 Nov.	(787786.420000) PTM over DSL is down after 13128 minutes uptime
20:09:48, 04 Nov.	(787786.420000) PPPoE is down after 13127 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -​ Down)]
20:09:44, 04 Nov.	(787782.730000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

I haven't touched the router, or done anything from a device (User Request?). And I haven't rebooted it either, the uptime of 2 days is a puzzle, it should be longer than that, unless it's rebooting itself?

Note that's it's a similar time to the outages on the BT Hub.

Cheers,

Andy

[#14]

Hi @Dan_the_Van 

Thanks. I did post a reply a few days ago, pasting in some of the data. It went for 'approval' though, and hasn't appeared here.

I'll try again after sending this one.

[#15]

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@Dan_the_Van wrote:

@Wildroverandy 

It would be handy for the Hub One connection stats to be recorded, they are found under

>Troubleshooting >Helpdesk

You should be able to copy paste the text.

Depending how long the Hub One has been switched off the firmware version might be out of date, current version is 4.7.5.1.83.8.289.1.3 this device might have dropped of the management system if it is an extended period, but this will not be an issue.

To check for DSL drops you look at the Event Log select category PPP it should be possible to copy paste the text if you wish to share the events. With DSL drops you should notice the Hub 'b' light flashing

Just a reminder with the previous BT Hub the messages regarding  pbthdmw.bt.m were not likely to be the cause of the DSL drops.

---

So, trying this again (posting the info that is).

This is the Hub Helpdesk info (the first part up to my user name):

1. Product name:	Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:	+081441+NQ64012900
3. Firmware version:	Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.289.1.3 Last updated 09/09/24
4. Board version:	Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:	0 days, 00:11:18
6. Data rate:	19999 / 79904
7. Maximum data rate:	32572 / 100946
8. Noise margin:	15.3 / 8.7
9. Line attenuation:	14.7 / 12.7
10. Signal attenuation:	14.5 / 12.8
11. Data sent/received:	27.2 GB / 242.1 GB

I'll send the log data in a separate reply.