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Inbound traffic suddenly stops

MisterW
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

I'm assuming that if the UDM is telling the 166 to pause, then that should have been captured in the packet capture on the UDM's wan port. Is that correct?

No, flow control will be at hardware level , you won't see it on a packet capture.

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DavidJ
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

No, flow control will be at hardware level , you won't see it on a packet capture.

OK. Is there any way of telling if this is/was the culprit?

MisterW
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

If flow control is the problem, and its a big if, then probably the only way to find out is to see if there are any options to disable it, both on the UDM and the 166.

 

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DavidJ
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

If flow control is the problem, and its a big if, then probably the only way to find out is to see if there are any options to disable it, both on the UDM and the 166.

There's an option on the UDM - it's already disabled.
There's no option on the 166.

MisterW
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

In that case we can probably dismiss that as a possibility.

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DavidJ
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

Oh well, I guess it was a long shot.

I'm trying to think how to investigate this further. Configuration changes to my UDM definitely trigger the problem, but the problem does seem to be that incoming traffic, whether that's just dns/ping responses or something more, suddenly stops coming.

If I can give exact dates/times of when this occurs, are you aware if Plusnet are able to check that against any logs?

MisterW
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

They won't log your traffic, the only logs will be when the PPPoE session went down and came back.

Does the UDM  have a kernel log as well as a general log ?

I assume it's Linux based ?

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corringham
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

I still think  that setting up a TBB BQM would tell you whether  the lapses in traffic are both ways or just from your end. You would also see whether there are packet losses at other times.

It may be that the problem occurs when your neighbour is practising their arc welding technique...

DavidJ
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

They won't log your traffic, the only logs will be when the PPPoE session went down and came back.

I was wondering if I'm somehow triggering an alert or block - would an event like that be logged? I'm assuming Plusnet scan traffic generated by their customers for known issues (spam, ddos etc).

 

Does the UDM  have a kernel log as well as a general log ?

I assume it's Linux based ?

It is Linux based and, true to form, it produces all sorts of logs. I've had a look through many of them. Those that report the event all report it in the same way - dns and ping timeouts, followed by attempts to verify if the internet is contactable, followed by the decision that the wan has gone down and a subsequent restart of the pppoe session. I can't find any clue to a problem within the UDM.

MisterW
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

I was hoping that there might have been some logs relating to the actual eth port similar to this

Mon Mar 25 11:11:52 2024 kern.info kernel: [607323.674056] mt7530-mdio mdio-bus:1f eth3: Link is Down
Mon Mar 25 11:11:52 2024 kern.info kernel: [607323.679715] br-lan: port 3(eth3) entered disabled state
Mon Mar 25 11:11:52 2024 daemon.notice netifd: Network device 'eth3' link is down
Mon Mar 25 11:12:00 2024 kern.info kernel: [607331.760797] mt7530-mdio mdio-bus:1f eth3: Link is Up - 1Gbps/Full - flow control rx/tx
Mon Mar 25 11:12:00 2024 kern.info kernel: [607331.768934] br-lan: port 3(eth3) entered blocking state
Mon Mar 25 11:12:00 2024 kern.info kernel: [607331.774300] br-lan: port 3(eth3) entered forwarding state
Mon Mar 25 11:12:00 2024 daemon.notice netifd: Network device 'eth3' link is up

which might indicate a physical link problem.

Clutching at straws , another thought, since this is VDSL, which unit is doing the VLAN insertion the 166 or the UDM ?

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DavidJ
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

Give me a mo and I'll post the relevant bits of the log here. You might spot something I haven't.

Don't you just love Linux logs? Every time next door's cat farts it gets logged somewhere!

Townman
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

Sitting on the side lines here attempting to better comprehend the scenario (which I understand little) ... and get a clear picture in my head - does the below correctly reflect the discussion history?

 

---\
LAN -------[ ROUTER ] ====== [ X ] ===== [ MODEM ] ~~~~~ [ VDSL ] ~~~~~~~ [ Exchange]
---/

 

Claims

  • Doing something on the [ ROUTER ] leads to a state where it appears that  DNS / PING response traffic does NOT come back from the exchange
  • Inspection of traffic through smart switch [ X ] shows no DNS / PING response traffic from the [ MODEM ] to the [ ROUTER ]

 

Is there any diagnostic interface / facility in the [ MODEM ] which might show if there is inbound traffic on the [ VDSL ] ?  Is it possible that the symptom is something happening in the [ MODEM ] - that is there is  [ VDSL ] traffic, but it is not being processed properly?

When in this state is ANY inbound traffic being received at the [ ROUTER ] ?  TBB_BQM might help here.

 

OK now for the potentially really stupid question ... exposing my limited understanding of PPoE.

@MisterW made reference as to where is the VLAN insertion here?  If done in the [ ROUTER ] is it possible that the something trigger has modified the VLAN thereby causing the traffic to be subsequently sent over a non-existent logical connection?

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MisterW
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

@Townman

If done in the [ ROUTER ] is it possible that the something trigger has modified the VLAN thereby causing the traffic to be subsequently sent over a non-existent logical connection?

That was my thinking...

Looking at the 166 details, it does have two bridge modes , a regular one where it does the VLAN insertion and a 'Full bridge' mode where the connected router can do the VLAN tagging https://www.draytek.co.uk/support/guides/kb-router-as-dsl-modem

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Townman
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

Thank you @MisterW - not entirely out of my tree!!

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DavidJ
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Re: Inbound traffic suddenly stops

Doing something on the [ ROUTER ] leads to a state where it appears that  DNS / PING response traffic does NOT come back from the exchange

Inspection of traffic through smart switch [ X ] shows no DNS / PING response traffic from the [ MODEM ] to the [ ROUTER ]

Correct. The smart switch was only inserted temporarily to provide a way of capturing traffic before it hit the router's wan port. I wanted to verify the capture performed on the router itself (using tcpdump on the wan port). The captures matched so I've removed the switch from the equation.

 

Is there any diagnostic interface / facility in the [ MODEM ] which might show if there is inbound traffic on the [ VDSL ] ?  Is it possible that the symptom is something happening in the [ MODEM ] - that is there is  [ VDSL ] traffic, but it is not being processed properly?

Afraid not. There are plenty of stats on VDSL line status but no indication of traffic. It shows packets transmitted and received for the LAN but not for the WAN connection.

 

When in this state is ANY inbound traffic being received at the [ ROUTER ] ?  TBB_BQM might help here.

I've set up TBB_BQM as suggested by @corringham (sorry I didn't reply to you). When I did the packet capture at the switch between the router and modem there were a few packets coming in but hardly any. They were mainly duplicate ACKs and retransmissions. I guess this does make sense. My router isn't sending out traffic because it can't do DNS resolutions and it thinks the wan has gone down. So external hosts aren't going to continue TCP conversations until they receive ACKs for packets already sent. And, in the absence of those ACKs, they'll retransmit. There are one or two incoming packets that aren't duplicate ACKs or retransmissions but they quickly dry up. In the end, the vast majority of the traffic is outgoing dns requests and pings from my router as it desperately looks for life on the internet before it gives up and restarts the pppoe session.

 

@MisterW made reference as to where is the VLAN insertion here?  If done in the [ ROUTER ] is it possible that the something trigger has modified the VLAN thereby causing the traffic to be subsequently sent over a non-existent logical connection?

The link @MisterW provided shows 2 bridge modes, simple and full. The 166 only provides the simple option. My 166 is set up to insert VLAN tag 101 - that's the default setting and it hasn't changed. The UDM does have the option to insert a VLAN tag but that option isn't set and never has been.

 

If we're looking for potential issues with the Vigor 166 or trying to eliminate it, I could dig out the old Openreach modem and put it in place of the 166. It's a simple box but it always worked. I wonder where it is?