Q: When Is An Alleged CE DP-CP Line Fault Not Entirely Genuine ?

[#1]

A: When it appears likely to be a consequence of planned maintenance at the exchange end of the line or potentially even some totally unauthorised and thus criminal activity by a some totally unknown 3rd party !

I have a massive fundamental problem with my connection to PN.  I can't give too much detail in public for security reasons but all relevant info is available on Ticket #241440588

Suffice it to say that an alleged voice line fault with no dial tone etc. is somewhat difficult to believe when I'm using the line to call PN, heard a dial tone, got connected to PN support and was having a lengthy conversation about the issue. PN were also able to call me back on the allegedly 'faulty' line. Not once. Not twice. But three calls both ways over a period of several hours.

The reported dsl problem is quite clearly a radius server issue following recent changes which have apparently been made at the exchange end of the line. Any alleged voice line issue is completely irrelevant and is almost without doubt being used just as a convenient excuse in order to kick the can down the road and/or buy more time to resolve whatever the real issue is with the maintenance or 'upgrade' work being done.

Can someone please ensure that the ticket is properly read, fully understood and subsequently dealt with by someone with a good technical knowledge because this does not appear to be a genuine fault at all or even a random and completely unforeseen consequence of network maintenance or an upgrade. Assuming that it's not somethibg far more serious, there is clearly something fundamentally gone wrong here following planned maintenance and as explained fully on the ticket, it's a VERY serious issue for several different and VERY important reasons.

PS: There could be a duplicate thread posted using a shiny new a/c before I finally guessed how to log in to this one ! Please delete the other thread and NOT this one

[#2]

Hi @mikeb 

I'm sorry to hear this has happened

We're not even seeing any synchronisation from the router to the local exchange so it's unlikely to be any issues with the RADIUS server on our end or BT's as if your router isn't in sync there will be no attempts to connect at all.

It isn't impossible to have faults on the phone line where the phone is okay but the broadband isn't and our tests are still showing the Dis in network fault this morning so it's extremely likely this is the cause of the issue 

[#3]

Is this an ADSL or a FTTC service?

If FTTC, there are reasonable external possibilities for the fault whilst the telephone works fine.  The DIS could be a patch lead in the cabinet between the FTTC port and the d-side copper line.  I suspect that might be treated as a copper line fault, even though the telephone voice service is fine.

[@MatthewWheeler]

Sorry but PN appear to be seriously extracting the urine now.

Just how terminally stupid do you need to be to actually add the most recent response to the ticket given the inportant info provided above it ?

@MatthewWheeler  Did you actually read the ticket anf fully understand/appeciate the fundamental problem here ?  Would you have added the last PN response given the detailed info posted above ?

The can is apparently just being repeatedly kicked down the road using any totally unreasonable and totally irrelevant excuse that can be thought of. The fundamental information added to the ticket is clearly not even being read. PN are simply taking advantage of my situation

@Townman: It's just a standard adsl line

[@MatthewWheeler :]

Sorry but PN appear to be seriously extracting the urine now.

Just how terminally stupid do you need to be to actually add the most recent response to the ticket given the inportant info provided above it ?

@MatthewWheeler :  Did you actually read the ticket anf fully understand/appeciate the fundamental problem here ?  Would you have added the last PN response given the detailed info posted above ?

The can is apparently just being repeatedly kicked down the road using any totally unreasonable and totally irrelevant excuse that can be thought of. The fundamental information added to the ticket is clearly not even being read. PN are simply taking advantage of my difficult situation

@Townman: It is/was just a standard adsl line and this is quite clearly an issue between PN and BT so unless something has actually changed, it is still 100% nothing to do with me or my wiring or my equipment etc. BT or unauthorised persons have clearly been fiddling with the wires at the exchange end. BT/PN are now trying to ignore the problem or simply buy more time by abusing my position knowing full well that there is absolutely nothing that I can do about it

NOTE:  Message reposted due to connection and editing difficulties screwing things up. Please ignore/delete the previous version above.

[#6]

@MatthewWheeler 

Following up on a PM from @mikeb 

This is reported to be an ADSL circuit with an account having a static IP address.

1. Is the xDSL session in sync?
2. Can PPP session connection attempts be seen on PLUSNET's RADUIS servers?

How does the hand-off from BT's in-exchange RADUIS servers to Plusnet's work for establishing the PPP session for fixed IP address users?  If the circuit is in sync, is there any possibility that the correct hand-off is not working here, so that a PPP session cannot be established?

How likely is it that the diagnostic tests made by PN which reported a copper circuit fault could have 'repaired' a bad (damp) joint, sufficient to sustain a telephone conversation ... only to have gone bad again and stopped xDSL sync?

If the circuit is in sync, but there is no evidence of PPP establishment being attempted, is it possible that in-exchange engineering work has patched this user's circuit to the wrong VLAN?

[#7]

@Townman 

Thank you very much for the questions and information posted above ... it's just a shame that PN are apparently ignoring you just as much as they are definitely ignoring me

MathewWheeler had exactly the same PM as you did ... other than probably containing a few more typos. Apart from my connection issues, unfortunately, I can barely see what I'm typing on this tiny screen with my fat fingers as I have more than enough difficulties on my desktop system !

Everything is now right back to day 1 with PN telling me they've raised a fault with their 'supplier' and it will be dealt with in 2 days. Exactly what I was told when I first reported the issue. At no time has anyone taken any notice whatsoever of what they are being told by me (or you) we're just going round and round in ever decreasing circles, destined to eventually disappear up the hole that BT/PN appear to be talking out of

It looks like PN have now successfully managed to drag this issue our for yet another week by taking stupid or inappropriate actions then simply passing the ticket back to me and/or putting it on hold for several days.

This really does appear to be an issue that PN know all about and they're simply buying time by doing little other than blaming their 'supplier' rather than actually dealing with it. No one could possibly be ignoring all of the 'facts' for quite so long unless it was totally intentional. The sound of apparent 'panic' when the first person I spoke to discovered there was a problem but he couldn't do some test or other due to there not being a PN router on the line so he needed to talk to his manager probably says it all !

I guess the problem is that BT will do whatever they want to do in whatever timescale they want to do it no matter what so anything PN say or try to do is somewhat irrelevant to whatever is actually going on. The fact that there would not appear to be any records of this apparently unauthorised line work to check and explain what has happened is simply astounding ... not to mention concerning in the extreme for reasons you are aware of .

[#8]

Apologies for the delayed responses here @mikeb and @Townman 

I've been looking into this over the past couple of days and there's nothing further we can really do with this than we're not doing already.

The line is definitely testing as out of sync on our end as shown in the below screenshot 

Looking at all the tests we have run from when the issue first started the router has never been in sync on any of them so there is definitely a fault on the line rather than anything to do with authentication be it on our servers or BT's servers.

If the router is showing as in sync on your end it may be that there is a crossed line somewhere which would explain why the copper line tests are failing. With an ADSL line, we cannot investigate any broadband issues whilst the phone line has a fault as more often than not the two are the same. 

Unfortunately, the engineers aren't able to investigate the issue externally as they've advised they need access to the property to check the internal cabling. Without booking this engineer there really isn't anything further we can do.

[#9]

@MatthewWheeler

From the PN test end, would I be correct that the test is to the DSLAM port allocated for this provision?

The user’s observation is that the phone line is working fine - there have been phone call to / from Plusnet.

The user sees the modem in sync, but cannot obtain a PPP session.

It has been suggested that in-exchange maintenance has been undertaken to address congestion.

Theory: if this user’s line card were attached to the wrong DSLAM port, would that give rise to the conditions being observed…

- Phone line works fine
- Router is in sync (with the DSLAM port is is connected to)
- There’s no connection to Plusnet’s VLAN for that port so there’s no possibility of attaining a PPP connection
- Plusnet is unlikely to see a router in sync on the expected DSLAM port

Is there any course of action to have the exchange assets audited post the reported shuffling? It would seem a nugatory use of BT Openreaches resources to send a POTS engineer to the user’s premises … only to find no line fault … and then needing to also request a subsequent BB engineering visit.

I’m thinking exchanges are complicated spaces and there’s room for an error having been made.

[#10]

PN need to explain EXACTLY what's been going on at the exchange end and, more to the point, why. This really doesn't look like some random fault in any respect. It looks like maintenance work gone wrong at best. There simply must be records to explain who, what, where, when and why etc. This total lack of info/honesty is completely unacceptable and not helping in the slightest.

Relevant questions have been asked both here and on the ticket but all are apparently just being ignored. There has been no update to the ticket.

Please explain this:

[QUOTE]
PN added this to the ticket on Monday 06/05/2024 @ 1430 hours:

" Our suppliers have advised that they have resolved the fault affecting your services. Upon testing the connection today we can see that it is working correctly. "

and also called me on the landline triggering the answerphone.
[/QUOTE]

BT can also fairly easily check the line closer to the router by accessing the JB they rather stupidly (IMHO) added some years ago.

BT can send an LCP Termination Request to disconnect routers prior to starting work at on the DSLAM just like they always appear to do. This will force a reboot/resynch.

BT can also force a reboot/resynch by intentionally disconnecting the wires at the exchange, cabinet, pole or JB etc.

[#11]

@MatthewWheeler  @Townman 

Typical BQM example. This is for 29/04/2024 with no traffic whatsoever on my connection during peak hours.  Other days are better/worse.

Having horrendous problems trying to connect/login/post on here today with something trying to consume 100% of what little resources I have available. Can't load PMs if there are any to read  

[#12]

In addition to the above, BT could also resolve the *VERY* obvious long-term issue wirh the drop wire which will be 100% apparent *IF* they have actually checked things out locally and aren't just doing nothing other than blatantly lying of course

They might even like to deal with all the random stuff hanging off the relevant pole and swinging in the breeze at the same time. We're talking JBs or whatever not actually being attached to the pole but just left dangling on cables here and not the usual rubbish wrapped round wires BTW. Been like that for several months despite many visits to said pole to do other work   It's really nice hearing the constant banging as it repeatedly knocks against the pole all night long whenever windy ... not !

[#13]

Thought for the day:

If BT/PN are now trying to make adsl so 'unattractive' and unreliable/unusable in order to force me onto FTTP then they may well be successfull ... but it will be with any one of the various non-BT/PN services which are readily available, have been for ages and despite me having no need whatsoever for speed or bandwidth just reliability

This forum site is just totally unusable today, several minutes to load pages and paste text, so time to give up for now.

Thanks for any help/info/advice already given and all that is hopefully yet to come

[#14]

Re: the previously mentioned note added to the ticket:

[QUOTE]
2:30pm, Monday 6 May 2024

I tried to call you today but was only able to leave a message on your landline ... blah, blah, blah, ... or there is anything else you would like to discuss, please get back in touch by giving us a call on 0330 123 9123 between 08:00-20:00.

Kind regards,

F***r
[/QUOTE]

I need to know AS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY whether this means that a message WAS in fact left or simply that a message could have been left but wasn't or that although an answerphone apparently picked up the call it couldn't/wouldn't allow a message to be left.

I'll be adding this really important question to the ticket as well.

[#15]

Hi there, 

We don’t have any information on what happens within exchanges. The network, including exchanges, are managed and maintained by Openreach and the do no divulge this information to any provider. What we do know is that there is a dis in network which just means there a disconnection somewhere along the way, this can range from your property itself, the cabinet, exchange or telephone poles. With what you’ve described already, I would suspect that the JB at the pole is causing the issue but I can’t 100% confirm this. 

It’s going to need an engineer to go out and resolve this and to be honest, it’ll more than likely need a home visit as well to ensure it’s all fully resolved. At this point I would highly recommend bringing up your concerns around the telephone pole. You can also report a health and safety issue here - Report damage, vandalism or a health & safety issue | Openreach. But I’d recommend doing this once the fault has been resolved fully. 

In regard to the phone call, my colleague had left a message on your voicemail/answering phone. 

We’re due an update on the fault today which isn’t yet available so once this comes through, we’ll be in touch further to discuss next steps.