Slow Upload speeds (Plusnet hub 2)

[#1]

This thread has prompted me to start this topic: https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/SOGEA-and-Quiet-Line-Testing/m-p/19767...

@BreadEatBread  can you possibly contribute by plugging a phone in and listening to see if the line is quiet?

It will also be interesting to learn if the bot detects low upload speed when the download is within contractual limits. I suspect that it might need escalating from first level CSAs if their computers do not report a download fault..

[#2]

@Baldrick1 My personal opinion is that the bot (and first-line support) will claim 'no issue', but from my extremely limited knowledge the event log looks extremely suspect. I don't know whether it is a Hub issue, or a network one, but something is badly wrong somewhere.

As an aside, would connecting a phone be of any use - the phone component is, AFAIK, disconnected?

[#3]

@jab1.

I am suggesting using the phone to detect noise on the FTTC line, not make telephone calls.

[#4]

Fair enough - if it can do that. I have no idea, and no way of checking, as my copper line has been removed.

[#5]

Assuming SoGEA  low upload speeds are a symptom of a low frequency issue somewhere,

just plugging in a phone handset in to the BT socket might identify audible mains hum or crackling,

even if the QLT (Quiet Line Test) isn't available.

[#6]

I am assuming that with SoGEA, the copper pair is simply not connected to the exchange in any way.

That means there will be no "wetting current" on the line, so a modern phone (which uses some of that "wetting current" to operate) will just be dead: even if there IS noise on the line, you won't hear anything on a phone.

[#7]

When a copper pair goes to SoGEA, the physical wires are untouched and ARE still connected at the exchange.

The only thing that changes, is that the old analogue phone switching equipment will no longer route signals on that line.

The line testing equipment at the exchange is still connected and continues to work on every line, and the exchange ADSL modems are likely to remain operational until 2030 to facilitate "SOTAP for Analogue" and other analogue to digital transitional technologies.

[#8]

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@paul_blitz wrote:

.…..That means there will be no "wetting current" on the line,

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This assumes that the input impedance of the modem is infinite.

I thought that telephones, especially the old type, were open circuit when on the hook?

[#9]

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@Anunnaki wrote:

When a copper pair goes to SoGEA, the physical wires are untouched and ARE still connected at the exchange.

The only thing that changes, is that the old analogue phone switching equipment will no longer route signals on that line.

The line testing equipment at the exchange is still connected and continues to work on every line, and the exchange ADSL modems are likely to remain operational until 2030 to facilitate "SOTAP for Analogue" and other analogue to digital transitional technologies.

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I can appreciate that, for cost reasons, the lines are likely to remain connected at the exchange building, but does that mean that, necessarily, the exchange itself remains connected? If that's where the line test hardware is, then I guess so! 

[#10]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

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@paul_blitz wrote:

.…..That means there will be no "wetting current" on the line,

---

This assumes that the input impedance of the modem is infinite.

I thought that telephones, especially the old type, were open circuit when on the hook?

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At voice frequencies, the modem (or more specifically, the ADSL filter) will have a very high impedance. At DC, the modem will have infinite impedance / resistance (it is capacitively coupled, which blocks the DC).

"Wetting Current" is a low power DC supply (typically around 20mA) , historically the current was modulated by the carbon microphone of old phones to create audio on the line. If you still have one of those old phones (700 series I think they were called) then you CAN use it to listen for audio / noise, as it has no electronics for the earpiece to work (I keep one at our radio studios to listen for audio on landlines!). The phone still has to be "off hook" to connect it to the line, to be able to listen.

Modern phones use the current to operate the phone electronics, and without it, modern phones simply won't work. Some take a tiny amount of the power to "stay alive", but it's small enough that the exchange doesn't consider the line to be "off hook" 

Yes, telephones are nominally open circuit when "on hook".... but that doesn't help if you're trying to listen for noise, as the phone electronics are not connected to the line at all! And that applied to old phones too!

[#11]

Neighbour have very slow speed, 10-15 compared to mine 35. Plug in a phone and heard noise. Reported to his provider (Sky) who recorded a fault.

OR engineer appeared and wanted to test the line, but they weren't in. Told him my findings, disappeared to the cab. 10 minutes later came back, informed me that he had removed the pair from the exchange

Neighbour tested speed that night, 78 download.

So, the exchange pair does have a bearing on speed

[#12]

@Anunnaki said "When a copper pair goes to SoGEA, the physical wires are untouched and ARE still connected at the exchange."

Would that apply or not to a "new" SoGEA line, such as I had installed this February?

For various (logical) reasons rather than switch my POTS/ADSL line to SoGEA I had a new line installed (then took my time cancelling ADSL migrating the old POTS number to VOIP). The old line, despite now having neither broadband or voice services on it, still has dial tone and a (different) number assigned, though receives no calls and only seems capable of contacting the 17070 line test number.

[#13]

@HPsauce 

Unless you live next door to your FTTC cabinet I would imagine that the 'new' connection only went to the nearest junction box, there to link in to an existing multicore cable back to the exchange, with a FTTC cabinet linked in along the route..

[#14]

Good point @Baldrick1 given we're about 500 m from the cabinet they would almost inevitably have reused an existing spare pair to the pole over the road. (The overhead cable from there to us has, I'm told, four pairs in it and the engineer ran two pairs down into my new socket - future-proofing he said - obviously only one pair is connected)

Though given we're in a "stop sell" area would the engineers now be instructed to only do "half the loop" and connect across to the FTTC cabinet for our leg, not the exchange side? Or do they have a standard process and leave it all in place for testing and easier documentation/tracing? There's certainly no 50v power on the line - I checked.

Oddly our POTS cabinet and FTTC cabinet are on opposite sides of a main A-road, but there's presumably a suitably large bundle of wires connecting them to cover all eventualities! 🤣

[#15]

@BreadEatBread  It is unfortunate that your thread has been highjacked by other forum members and taken completely off track.

Have you raised a speed fault with Plusnet as that is the only way to get your low upload speed investigated? It is likely that a engineer visit would be arranged. It would be interesting to know if you have managed to get any support from Plusnet to fix the problem.

@mystreet1  Your story about your neighbours line is very hard to believe, as has already been stated in this thread the E-side cables ( Cabinet to exchange) are not disconnected at the cabinet and are still used by the exchange test equipment so as is often the case I do not believe the OR person was telling you the truth.

Also every line in the FTTC cabinet has a low pass filter that allows the phone signal frequencies to get from the exchange to the users line but blocks the high frequency VDSL2 signals from being transmitted back onto the E-side cable. VDSL2 would probably not work at all if this filtering was not present.  

The E-side pair does not affect the speed.