Compensation from Plusnet for email outage?!

[#1]

@DigbyChicken 

[#2]

MJN, thanks for clarifying that. I tried setting to TLS/SSL which automatically pre-fills the port number to 993. I then set that in conjunction with 'Normal Password' as the authentication method and this does work.

The PlusNET instructions do however say STARTTLS and port 993. You are however correct in that when I select STARTTLS, the port is automatically set to 143 again. Evidently the instructions are wrong?

[#3]

"So you're not paying them anything and you expect it to all be free? I'm not sure what point you are making??!"

I assume you're directing this observation at me, @MFredericks, given your additional comment. I never said that I expect Plusnet to offer me something for nothing (until relatively recently I was paying Plusnet £2 a month for hosting - domain and email). The point I was making, and I will try to make it again, was in response to a Plusnet employee saying that *all* Plusnet email access is essentially a free extra for Plusnet broadband customers. This isn't true: I am not a Plusnet *broadband* customer. Email for me is not a free bolt-on: it's the entirety of my commercial relationship with Plusnet. I am happy to pay for my email and domain access. If, however, Plusnet are effectively saying that they are not taking this service seriously, because many customers don't directly pay for it, well, that's fine. I wish they could have told their customers in a more straightforward manner. However, I am of course quite willing to take my custom - and my money - elsewhere.

[#4]

I'm still not sure that stacks up.

You are not a plusnet Broadband customer = you pay them nothing

You are not paying them for hosting or email = you pay them nothing

So therefore you are receiving services but pay them nothing...

[#5]

"You are not a plusnet Broadband customer = you pay them nothing

You are not paying them for hosting or email = you pay them nothing

So therefore you are receiving services but pay them nothing..."

I'm not absolutely sure what has promoted this aggressive defence of Plusnet, given that you don't know a single thing about my business relationship with them. After Plusnet's takeover of madasafish, I paid Plusnet a total of £160 over a number of years. *Plusnet* then took it upon themselves to change the terms of our relationship while still maintaining my domain name.

I say again: the representative of Plusnet stated that *all* email accounts handled by Plusnet are free (and therefore unreliable/'bonus') bolt-ons for their broadband customers. I was simply saying that that isn't true. Quite why this statement of fact has irritated you so I'm not absolutely sure.

[#6]

Not trying to stoke the fires of this thread any more but I only have an email service with Plusnet. I started off with Freenetname providing broadband, domain and email, then they were bought out by Madasafish. I stopped the broadband service but continued to pay for the domain and email service even after Plusnet took over Madasafish.

Then Plusnet announced they would no longer charge for this service but continue to provide it for me.

I’ve been using this email account since before Gmail even existed so it’s been main email account for nearly 20 years and much of my life is wrapped up in it.

So for posters such as @MFredericks to suggest that because it’s now free I should expect a lesser service is completely missing the point.

I could use other mail services but this one has been working fine for me for the best part of two decades so I don’t think that is a valid counter argument. 

Also, @adam945 I think your comments are also incorrect and seem to be completely forgetting or ignoring legacy clients such as myself. I carried on paying for the mail service quite happily until Plusnet decided to stop charging me. No one suggested the service would become worse/reduced, in fact it was more of a “we’ll carry on delivering the same service you take from us but you no longer have to pay for it.”

When compensation is mentioned, to be totally honest, I’d rather have reassurances that the issue was fixed, wasn’t going to happen again and the service is going to continue as I’ve had since I set it up years ago. I’m just concerned that my custom is being forgotten/ignored because it’s not understood or at worse, not cared about,

“You’re not compelled to use it.” Sorry but I am as it’s what I’ve done for the last nearly twenty years! E.g. my daughters school have this as a main point of contact as do my bank so it’s important to have it working for me.

if it’s a service you no longer wish to provide and/or support adequately, I just want to know so I can look into alternative arrangements as well as be given time to do so.

[#7]

I'd like to say we absolutely do appreciate everybody who uses our services whether you pay or we're providing for free, whether you're with Plusnet or a legacy brand (Madasafish, Metronet, Force9) and we'll still support as best as we can. 

We’re reviewing the future of the Plusnet email service (including the legacy brands), however at this stage a decision has not been made. If we make any changes, you'll be the first to know.

[#8]

It's not irritated me - I'm just pointing out that it is a free service - you pay nothing for it!

[#9]

---

@Gandalf wrote:

I'd like to say we absolutely do appreciate everybody who uses our services whether you pay or we're providing for free, whether you're with Plusnet or a legacy brand (Madasafish, Metronet, Force9) and we'll still support as best as we can. 

We’re reviewing the future of the Plusnet email service (including the legacy brands), however at this stage a decision has not been made. If we make any changes, you'll be the first to know.

---

Thanks for the reply @Gandalf  and I have to say that in my dealings with you I’ve found you to be nothing but extremely helpful, both publicly and on private cases. It was just concerning to see some of the comments, including from an admin suggest that it wasn’t being taken as seriously as it could have been as it was a free bolt on service that no everyone took advantage of which I most definitely don’t see it as.

I’m more reassured by your comments that no decision has been made so thanks for taking the time to respond,

[#10]

---

@MFredericks wrote:

It's not irritated me - I'm just pointing out that it is a free service - you pay nothing for it!

---

Firstly, I did not intend to irritate anyone on this thread, I just wanted to put across my view. On your reply, I think you’re still missing the point. Yes we know it is now free of charge but it was a paid service originally which many of us had been using as such until Plusnet decided to make it no cost. In replying ‘yes but it’s free’ it implies that we should put up with poor and/or unreliable service which we should absolutely not have to.

As I said, this is the first time I’ve had any major issues with the service around my email in the best part of two decades so not once have I even considered moving my email and domain to anywhere else. I entered into an agreement for it many years ago and until I’m informed otherwise I expect that service to continue in the same manner. If/when I am informed otherwise I expect to be treated fairly under the terms and conditions I signed up to. That’s all.

It is irrelevant how much this service now costs, hence several of us pointing that out to you.

That said, I don’t expect thousands of pounds in compensation but I do expect to be treated honestly and fairly as customer of a service offered by Plusnet. I don’t want to find out that the service I take is ending by someone switching off the lights as they leave but @Gandalf has addressed that on his previous post.

I just hope that you understand why some of us are concerned and don’t expect a response of ‘well it’s free so just put up with it’ as being acceptable in relation to these l recent issues.

Have a good day

[#11]

No problem at all @Lunar_Jetman

In other news, I'll get back to you on your ticket 218743236 soon. 

I hope you have a good day too

[#12]

@Gandalf Ofcom had words last year on treating customers fairly in relation to email addresses, as reported on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51571275 . Plusnet will need to take account of this in their review.

[#13]

Plusnet Help Team,

Any chance of correcting the IMAP port information  (port 993 is TLS/SSL not STARTTLS) and adding the password/authentication option details on your e-mail configuration details please?

[#14]

@Batphone

If our help & support articles need correcting, we'll change it.

As it happens I'm working closely with our Digital team towards making them better. 

However I do believe the IMAP port 993 works with SSL/TLS and STARTTLS but let me try this and I'll get back to you.

[#15]

Hi @Gandalf, I just took a look myself and can confirm it doesn't offer the STARTTLS command as a capability:

$ openssl s_client -connect imap.plus.net:993 -quiet
depth=2 C = US, O = DigiCert Inc, OU = www.digicert.com, CN = DigiCert High Assurance EV Root CA verify return:1
depth=1 C = US, O = DigiCert Inc, OU = www.digicert.com, CN = GeoTrust EV RSA CA 2018 verify return:1
depth=0 businessCategory = Private Organization, jurisdictionC = GB, serialNumber = 03279013, C = GB, L = Sheffield, O = Plusnet plc, CN = mail.plus.net verify return:1
* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4REV1] perdition ready on mail.plus.net 0002a007

This is to be expected though given the implicit use of TLS by IMAP on port 993.

Incidentally, I note also that your 'insecure' service doesn't offer STARTTLS either:

$ telnet imap.plus.net 143
Trying 217.46.26.18...
Connected to imap.plus.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4REV1] perdition ready on mail.plus.net 00029cea

Here's the sort of thing we'd expect if it did:

* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE LITERAL+ STARTTLS LOGINDISABLED]

Back to the Plusnet server you get a rather curt response if you request it! 😉

$ telnet imap.plus.net 143
Trying 217.46.26.43...
Connected to imap.plus.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4REV1] perdition ready on mail.plus.net 00029ce9
a001 STARTTLS
a001 BAD STARTTLS disabled, mate