Compensation from Plusnet for email outage?!

jjlothin · ‎08-06-2007

Thanks for posting that link!

Anoush · ‎22-08-2015

Hi @MJN thanks for the heads up!

Back to the Plusnet server you get a rather curt response if you request it!

$ telnet imap.plus.net 143
Trying 217.46.26.43...
Connected to imap.plus.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4REV1] perdition ready on mail.plus.net 00029ce9
a001 STARTTLS
a001 BAD STARTTLS disabled, mate

This response made me smile

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Townman · ‎22-08-2007

@Gandalf wrote:

@Batphone

However I do believe the IMAP port 993 works with SSL/TLS and STARTTLS but let me try this and I'll get back to you.

This page is not overly tidy - we have reported this before in the SU space. The encryption for the incoming ports is not explicit - the STARTTLS is after teh outbound port details, for which it is correct.

Incoming (IMAP or POP3) encryption is always SSL/TLS on the respective port.

Outgoing (SMTP) - the port should be 587 using STARTTLS (it does not support SSL/TLS) - however although deprecated (no longer accepted as a recognised standard) port 465 (which used to be the secure SMTP port) can often be found to be active and will work with Auto or SSL/TLS. Port 25 (with or without encryption) should not be used as that is for MX to MX mail transfer, not mail client message submission.

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Batphone · ‎14-07-2017

MJN, thank you for testing and confirming.

Also following on from Townmans's post I can add that outgoing SMTP port 587 seems to accept authentication in both clear text and STARTTLS modes. Not sure whether that is intentional but perhaps makes sense for a transitional period. My client was set to port 587 but in clear text mode and worked fine until now. I switched it to STARTTLS yesterday and can confirm that this also works. In my Thunderbird client I can now use secure methods for inbound and outbound e-mail as follows:

Incoming IMAP (secure):

Port: 993

Connection security: TLS/SSL

Authentication method: Normal password

Outgoing SMTP (secure):

Port: 587

Connection security: STARTTLS

Authentication method: Normal password

The following previous clear text methods still work but are not recommended:

Incoming IMAP clear text:

Port: 143

Connection security: None

Authentication method: Password, transmitted insecurely

Outbound SMTP clear text:

Port: 587

Connection security: None

Authentication method: Password, transmitted insecurely

Outbound SMTP (server to server) clear text:

Port: 25

Connection security: None

Authentication method: Password, transmitted insecurely

As has been mentioned by others, there is also POP for inbound e-mail which some may use. I have now set my client to use the secure methods for both IMAP and SMTP. Thank you for making those available recently.

briston · ‎21-06-2007

Now that is an interesting comment. Quite a few comments ago a poster made a comment about Plusnet dropping email. This was rubbished as conjecture around the outage. Now it seems Plusnet are looking at email future

jjlothin · ‎08-06-2007

Yes indeed - as @Gandalf said a few posts back:

"We’re reviewing the future of the Plusnet email service (including the legacy brands), however at this stage a decision has not been made. If we make any changes, you'll be the first to know."

It would be good if he/she could elucidate on what exactly's meant by "you'll be the first to know", and what kind of notice we Plusnet email customers will be given. When is the review decision going to be made?

It all makes me increasingly tempted to jump off the Plusnet ship now, rather than have to scrabble to change an email address (plus ISP plus phoneline) I've used for many many years under pressure of a deadline.

MFredericks · ‎10-11-2021

Having been part of another ISP who closed their email service - I would suspect they would give at least 3 months notice. More than enough time to do the necessary.

I'd hope they would try and give more notice - but I suspect that would be a typical timeframe.

jjlothin · ‎08-06-2007

Three months is obviously viable ... But it would be nice to know for sure!

MJN · ‎26-08-2010

@Townman wrote:
Port 25 (with or without encryption) should not be used as that is for MX to MX mail transfer, not mail client message submission.

When port 587 for mail submission was introduced it didn't prevent the continued use of port 25 for submission (in addition to transport) and indeed the standard (RFC2476) explicitly stated that it was still acceptable to do so.

Townman · ‎22-08-2007

Indeed it does, but stated in the context of...

"Port 587 is reserved for email message submission as specified in this document. While most email clients and servers can be configured to use port 587 instead of 25, there are cases where this is not possible or convenient"

Somewhat inferring that 25 should only be used where it is not feasible to do the job properly by using the port for MUA message submission - 587.

Setting aside the niceties of that RFC quite separately many network providers totally inhibit access to port 25 outside of their own networks. Thereby any email client configured to submit messages on port 25 might find an in ability to send email over some networks. To the best of my knowledge, access to port 587 is never blocked.

It is not dissimilar in some ways to not bothering to set authentication on the SMTP server setting because one is always connected to one's own provider's network. That all works fine until one needs to connect from elsewhere. Sticking to the rules - MUA submission on port 587 always using authentication somewhat reduces to opportunities for things not to work, particularly if roaming across networks.

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Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

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MJN · ‎26-08-2010

@Townman wrote:

Setting aside the niceties of that RFC quite separately many network providers totally inhibit access to port 25 outside of their own networks. Thereby any email client configured to submit messages on port 25 might find an in ability to send email on some networks. To the best of my knowledge, access to port 587 is never blocked.

Oh absolutely, and I would always recommend using 587. I was just pointing out that port 25 is not just used for mail transport and all(?) mail servers will accept submissions to it.

@Townman wrote:

It is not dissimilar in some ways to not bothering to set authentication on the SMTP server setting because one is always connected to one's own provider's network. That all works fine until one needs to connect from elsewhere.

Allowing unauthenticated mail submission is a bad idea, even for on-net source address identified connections, because it allows malware the ability to send out mail without any restriction given it doesn't need to know your credentials to use the mail service. Any mail client that fetches mail needs to be told the user's credentials and so Plusnet really ought to insist they are required for submitting mail too, which as you say also means the client will continue to work even if it subsequently roams to another network.