Problems with sending email via Plusnet to Fasthosts Livemail SMTP server

[#1]

I'm looking at moving our hosting either to Rackspace or Justhosts (my wife's business has been using justhosts for 10 years without problems).

The latest response from Fasthosts clearly shows that the customer support team have no clue about PBLs:

I've reviewed this ticket and our engineer & devs checked the smtp server and we cannot find any error on our end. The problem here in the ISP, as you mentioned, you can send an email using a different internet connection and but the PlusNet. Technically, if there's an error on the server, you should not be able to send emails using a different ISP or 4G connections and in your case, you cannot only send emails when using your Plusnet connection.

 
I understand that you're using Plusnet for some time now but we cannot assure that there are no changes on their end since our server found out  that their IP address (not our IP) blocked by multiple RBL's

 https://antispam.fasthosts.co.uk/147.147.57.252/
 

https://antispam.fasthosts.co.uk/217.32.161.57/

 
Apologize but there's nothing we can do here since the IP address listed is not from us and its coming directly from your ISP provider. Also, we've setup your email on our Thunderbird and its working fine on our end.

I have explained to them that they appear to be incorrectly applying the PBL and that is clearly a recent change because, as mentioned before, some of the Plusnet IP ranges have been listed in the PBL on Sorbs for 16 years but I only started being blocked 3 or 4 weeks ago.

[#2]

@Gandalf

Is it possible to get someone in core support to contact FastHosts to progress this please? If our understating is correct, their error and disposition is inappropriately placing blame / responsibility for this with Plusnet … potentially it’s bad PR.

[#3]

And just like magic, rthe problem was fixed.

I posted this as a response to their last message

"You appear to be missing the fact that you are blocking my access to the SMTP server based upon the PBL; please read what Spamhaus and Sorbs say about the use of the PBL and you will find it's to be used to prevent the listed IP address from sending email directly to the internet (i.e., addresses listed cannot run a SMTP server); what it is not to be used for is blocking access to SMTP servers. The Sorbs PBL has had the IP address range that I fall in listed since 2006, so as I've been able to send emails for 8 years from my Plusnet connection, it's clear that the change in behaviour has been implemented at Fasthosts end of the connection.
Please confirm why the PBL is being used to block my IP address when that is not what it is intended for.

Note that it's not Plusnet's IP range that's the problem, the entry in the PBL for these ranges is correct; the problem is Fasthosts new implementation of the PBL to block access to SMTP servers. "

Thanks Townman, and everyone else who commented.

[#4]

And just like that, they've gone and blocked me again.

Yet again they're blaming Plusnet for the failure; the 'tech' support people don't seem to understand the difference between webmail and SMTP mail, claiming that if the webmail works (which it does), then they don't have a problem

[#5]

They've confirmed that, yet again, they have blocked me because my IP falls within the range of blacklisted addresses in the PBL. Customer service even quoted what SpamHaus state on the PBL page and still didn't realise what it actually meant.

[#6]

This is what Fasthosts had to say:

Actually, you are sending emails using smtp.livemail.co.uk however, the emails will not be sent without you using an Internet Connection which is why you are using the IP address 217.32.161.80 provided by Plusnet to send emails. In this ticket reference 211229-000004, we did not make any changes from our end since we know that this is not something we have control of. It was resolved because there are blacklisting in Spamhaus that automatically delist IP address automatically within 24 hours.

It seems to have escaped their attention that my IP address in January is in the same range they are now blocking, confirming they have changed their blocking policies.

If you want to see what incompetence looks like, Fasthosts will take a lot of beating!

[#7]

They seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the PBL - that is a restriction on the listed IP addresses hosting a SMTP server relaying email messages.  That is not the same as an email client submitting email messages.

Elsewhere I have encountered significant issues with Fasthosts - in the end we moved the email hosting elsewhere.  

[#8]

They have reaffirmed their misunderstanding and have told me Plusnet need to ask Spamhaus to remove their IP range(s) from the PBL.

I have tried to explain the difference between mail relaying and using their SMTP to originate email, but I doubt very much they'll understand. I did also point out that after 3 weeks of complaining last time, it was magically fixed; I've asked them to get the techs to repeat what they did last time!

Roll on my day off on Friday, I will be on the phone explaining why I'm terminating the contract!

[#9]

Well it started working again despite me making no changes. I askedt what they had done, this was the reply:

"This was escalated to our engineers for further checking and the issue indicates that SMTP authentication was disabled in your email program settings. Since the login details have been verified, the email should now be working."

I'm not sure what they're talking about, my email apps / programs work fine when I route through my mobile data but not through my Plusnet BB service, so the authentication argument seems to be a red herring; it may be that they're referring to my server setting options, but they haven't enabled access to those so I can't check.

I expect to be back in June when they break the service again!

[#10]

They excelled themselves, they broke it again 4 weeks later! Yet again, they are claiming it's because PlusNet's IP range is in the PBL so is automatically blocked.

[#11]

The latest response from my hosts that I now refer to as FarceHosts:

If the email is working fine on webmail and on another internet service provider, then there is no issue with the email address itself.

I have checked the other tickets and it seems that the issue will just solve without intervention. We clearly did not do something on the back end and you also did not change any settings on your end. This means that this really has something to do with your Internet Service Provider.

If there is an error on our email servers, it won't work on any ISPs and devices.

My response was that the total downtime in the last 6 months is the same as the notice period they require (3 months), so basically they can go away whilst I move my hosting.

[#12]

Just need to tag @Gandalf.

Yet again, FastHosts are blaming PlusNet for their own incompetence. It's very obvious to me, at least, that PlusNet are doing a great job, whilst Farce Hosts - sorry - FastHosts, have no clue at all how to run a mailserver.

[#13]

Latest from FastHosts:

Dear Martin

That indeed concluded everything down to your Plusnet connection. We have no restrictions with ISP as long as generally there is an issue. I can't figure out a way around for this. If you can speak with Plusnet - ask them if there is something server end needed adjustment for your mail activities to work, then we will be more than happy to check that for you.

I have explained to them that they are clearly incompetent when a customer has to tell them they are misconfiguring their blacklist policy

Plusnet are being blamed yet again; can someone from PN contact Fasthosts and tell them why they are wrong?

[#14]

@bobpullen - is this in your ball park to poke at please?

[#15]

Not really I'm afraid.

AIUI, @RCFlyer is using Fasthosts' relay server. If that relay server is blocking direct attempts to connect to it from our broadband IP ranges then the onus is on Fasthosts to get their act together. It would almost certainly be affecting a whole bunch of non-Plusnet customers as well if they're genuinely rejecting SMTP connection attempts based on PBL listings.

This is probably going to sound a bit dismissive, but we don't run a mail server consultancy business

If Fasthosts were rejecting mail from our relay servers, then it would be a different situation. That isn't what's happening here though is it?

This is an open forum mind you, so anybody from Fasthosts is welcome to come and join the fun