Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

[#1]

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@RealAleMadrid wrote:

@Baldrick1  The Openreach product called PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access) is a one way option,  Altnets can use Openreach ducts and poles for a fee. The reverse does not apply, Openreach cannot use any Altnet infrastructure.

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Thanks for the clarification.

Some caution is required when looking at the Openreach roll out plan.

My understanding is that this does not include small contracts such as those being supported by community partnership.

Full fibre in our village was supported by the last government's 'connectmycommunity' voucher scheme. This did not appear in the the Openreach future plan until installation was well underway.

[#2]

@bmc wrote:

"CityFibre do use OR ducts - this is the duct serving my house with FTTP with CF engineers installing duct."

That's interesting. Around this area, CityFibre have built their own distribution network.

Our copper telephone line comes in underground via a tube that loops in and out of each house in the row, appearing behind a panel in the front wall of each dwelling.

Openreach have yet to start constructing their FTTP, but when CityFibre built theirs, a box was installed underground in the pavement outside each house's front garden, with a tube that runs back to a small green cabinet, which can service up to 48 or 64 connections.

When we had FTTP installed a couple of weeks ago, CityFibre dug up my front garden, (I was expecting them to use a mole plough, not a spade!), and ran another tube from the pavement box in to the panel in our front wall and blew the fibre from our house right to the cabinet.

All completely separate from Openreach's existing infrastructure.

@jab1 

The reason that I mentioned Openreach's charges as being a potential issue is that in this area, (Milton Keynes), BT sold their old coax cable television network to Virgin Media, who later decided that it was too costly to upgrade to "modern standards", (this was over 10 years ago), so closed it down instead.

I did hear at the time, that VM wanted to replace the coaxs that run into the houses with fibre optic, but Openreach's charge for using their existing ducts and tubes made it uneconomic to proceed.

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[#3]

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@Mr_Paul wrote:

@jab1 

The reason that I mentioned Openreach's charges as being a potential issue is that in this area, (Milton Keynes), BT sold their old coax cable television network to Virgin Media, who later decided that it was too costly to upgrade to "modern standards", (this was over 10 years ago), so closed it down instead.

I did hear at the time, that VM wanted to replace the coaxs that run into the houses with fibre optic, but Openreach's charge for using their existing ducts and tubes made it uneconomic to proceed.

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Things may have changed - I know Virgin/02 have recently cabled up our area for for their 'NextFibre' fully-fibred offering, and they definitely used OR trunking at least when doing so.

[#4]

@Mr_Paul 

The box in the pavement is a "Toby Box"

Here CF installed their own network round the main road and put a small cabinet at the head of the street which presumably links into the nearest OR chamber.

Although the picture only has one duct shpowing there are in fact seven, one for each house the chamber serves.

Brian

[#5]

In Winchester, Giganet (now part of CityFibre, I believe) have dug up the pavements to install their own ducting to the path outside my house... in fact, the same as what is now Virgin did 10 to 20 years ago. 

Giganet have used some of BT's ducting, but I think it's more for the "backhaul network" rather than the "street distribution".

BT currently have no plans (=installing between now and 2026!) for our area

I have a BT manhole in the road adjacent to my property for the phones, but everything from there to the houses is just "armoured cables"... so for some houses it's a long, non-ducted, underground cable, generally installed back when the houses were built in the late 60s. Many years ago, I wanted a second phone line, for a BBS: they installed a brand new cable, needing to dig up the pavement. running the cable to my garage wall.

I'm guessing that, when BT finally decide to install around here, whilst they will probably use the existing ductwork & manholes (assuming they have capacity, and haven't been damaged by Virgin or Giganet!)... they then need to decide whether to dig up individually, to lay individual, non-ducted, fiber... or to lay a load of ducts... just like Virgin & Giganet - assuming thry can find any space in the pavements!!!!

I don't imagine they would use Giganet's ducting, as it doesn't conveniently connect with their infrastructure at the street level.

[#6]

@paul_blitz  Openreach will not be allowed to use Giganet ducting in any way. They could put up loads of telephone poles to avoid doing any digging.😠

[#7]

An AltNet has laid Fibre ducts to a good proportion of the town I'm in.( Not rural by any means!)   OR says will be available by end 2026.   I'm not surprised if they don't not allowed to use AltNet Ducts!   

Not to happy to jump to AltNet and be tied to them from then on. As once I let go of the copper feed doubt I'll be able to get it back if the AltNet does not work out!

[#8]

As once I let go of the copper feed doubt I'll be able to get it back if the AltNet does not work out!

If OR don't provide FTTP to your premises then the copper line will remain, so you can still go back to it from a supplier using the OR network. You wont be able to get a phone service over it but you will be able to get broadband

[#9]

@chagoi5 

I believe "by end 2026" means you are in OR's plans but no detailed work has yet been done so no firm date.

As stated, the AltNet cannot touch the OR network so the copper wire stays in place. If looking to move back at some point and OR FTTP isn't available then you can get a FTTC SOGEA service which is internet only. You do lose your copper landline.

If you leave PN then you lose PN email and any other add ons you may have (and your copper landline).

You can have two FTTP connections from different providers - it just means you have two Optical Network Terminators (ONT) on your inside wall (and possibly two external boxes).

Brian

[#10]

It does seem unfair on OR that they are not allowed the reciprocal deal to use AltNets ducting.  At the time I had a look down the 'pit/manhole' that I know the Altnet would supply us from An original OR pit. With their Equipment in there, leaves little room for OR to install anything in it! 

[#11]

@chagoi5 

I meant to ask if you were currently served by an overhead or underground feed. It sounds like underground. The following picture is an 8 port Connectorized Block Terminal (CBT) in the underground chamber serving my house.

Brian

[#12]

Underground.   From where the AltNet Connection port is in the road it quote a dig to the house.  Not have drive dug up as only resurface 2-3 years ago!  I've seen some of the Altnets install similar to what mine would be, not impressed so far!

[#13]

Here's my AltNet Fibre termination block in OR pit,    Where not available or no capacity they have dug their own pits and installed these in lots of locations around town.

[#14]

@chagoi5 

That looks messy.

Ae you sure thais is the chamber that serves your house? There seem to be a lot of ducts for the AltNet but no corresponding large number of copper cables for the OR service.

I forgot to mention CityFibre also use my chamber (I have a choice) but they simply ran 7 ducts into the chamber with no other equipment. Their ducts run back to a cabinet at the top of the street which is connected to CF's own backbone network.

I would imagine that if OR can't install their CBT in the chamber they would have to dig a new one.

Brian

[#15]

Yeap I'm sure I had OR out in the past before the AltNet installed anything and watched them work on my copper in this pit. Its the main one at a road junction that then splits of in many directions to feed various estates.

It very deep and the copper is all the black stuff at the bottom. Pity the poor OR engineers who have to work on it now with all the Altnet(purple straws) draped all over the copper. 

To get to that point I know the copper takes a very torturous route from FTTC cab via very similar pits with lots of joints. From here it goes to a small OR pit in our cul-de-sac which only has 5 properties.  

Even with all that I have to say my service FTTC is pretty good,  not fast but quite stable.