MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

[#1]

The problem is that while there are no MX records the mail servers of people trying to send you mail will probably decide it is undeliverable and return it to the sender as such. That's different to when a mail server is configured correctly but is down when they should keep retrying for a period. Also as DNS records take time to propagate you can't be sure how long the servers will see the miss-configuration.

[#2]

Quote from: spoon

The problem is that while there are no MX records the mail servers of people trying to send you mail will probably decide it is undeliverable and return it to the sender as such. That's different to when a mail server is configured correctly but is down when they should keep retrying for a period. Also as DNS records take time to propagate you can't be sure how long the servers will see the miss-configuration.

Thanks for that.
This is something of a dilemma. Customers will, I am sure, re-send emails, but it still makes me feel vulnerable.
Regards

Chris

[#3]

Hi Bob,
Don't know if you saw my query regarding you mention of MX records for MS. I am not sure what you mean, but was hoping I could make those changes before changing the email settings to DNS records I could give it a go perhaps this evening.
Best regards
Chris

[#4]

Quote from: C6REW

1. If I made the changes to 'I wish to specify DNS records for mail to this domain', how long would my emails be down for and will I still be able to retrieve all the ones that had not arrived on my computer if I put everything back to 'normal'? 24hrs?

The change would propagate overnight. and you'd need to wait overnight again to change it back. Once changed mail would be pointed at the MX record specified, so at present it would point to an invalid verification address. Email sent to your address is likely to get bounced/deferred during this time i.e. some mail might keep on trying for a few days (in which case it will get delivered when the proper MX records are in place or you change things back) but a considerable amount could bounce.

Quote from: C6REW

2. Can we confirm when the overnight 'change' actually takes place. Is it 0000 UK time?

I'm not 100% sure TBH. Fairly certain it's early hours though.

Quote from: C6REW

Quote from: Bob ...... If you know what MX records MS are going to want you to use when things are all up and running then it's probably a good idea to add them now to minimise down time. I guess this is the solution to making sure my emails still arrive, but unfortunately I don't understand what it means.

Once verification has been completed, Microsoft will expect you to add further MX records to point you rmail at their Exchange instance. If you knew these ahead of time, you could add them at the same time as the verification record. That would mean mail would start flowing through to Exchange as soon as Microsoft do whatever they need to at their side so it's accepted.

Quote from: C6REW

Am I right in saying that once MS has recognised my domain ownership and can create the email addresses within my MS Exchange account, I won't miss any of them that arrived from a designated point in the past and obviously that point forward?

At this point you'd need to add further MX records as explained above and that too will take 24 hours to propagate (thus me suggesting you add them at the same time as the verification record if possible).

Quote from: C6REW

The key thing for me is not to loose any emails. No problem in them going missing for a short time outside of work hours.

If you can set up all necessary MX records and have Microsoft configure the address their side before switching to the 'manually manage email records' option then that's your best bet. Email would go to the existing destination until the overnight DNS refresh. There would then be a period of propagation where some mail goes to the MS mailbox and some still trickles through to your Plusnet mailbox. After a further 24 hours or so, all mail would go to the Exchange instance. If there's any separation/delay in carrying out any of the aforementioned steps then you're almost certainly going to lose some mail. Senders of genuine emails (rather than list/marketing emails etc.) would be notified there was a problem so might try again later, but any 'one time' messages sent by companies/websites etc. would go missing.
Hope that makes sense.

[#5]

Quote from: Bob

Quote from: C6REW Quote from: Bob ...... If you know what MX records MS are going to want you to use when things are all up and running then it's probably a good idea to add them now to minimise down time. I guess this is the solution to making sure my emails still arrive, but unfortunately I don't understand what it means. Once verification has been completed, Microsoft will expect you to add further MX records to point you rmail at their Exchange instance. If you knew these ahead of time, you could add them at the same time as the verification record. That would mean mail would start flowing through to Exchange as soon as Microsoft do whatever they need to at their side so it's accepted. Quote from: C6REW The key thing for me is not to loose any emails. No problem in them going missing for a short time outside of work hours. If you can set up all necessary MX records and have Microsoft configure the address their side before switching to the 'manually manage email records' option then that's your best bet. Email would go to the existing destination until the overnight DNS refresh. There would then be a period of propagation where some mail goes to the MS mailbox and some still trickles through to your Plusnet mailbox. After a further 24 hours or so, all mail would go to the Exchange instance. If there's any separation/delay in carrying out any of the aforementioned steps then you're almost certainly going to lose some mail. Senders of genuine emails (rather than list/marketing emails etc.) would be notified there was a problem so might try again later, but any 'one time' messages sent by companies/websites etc. would go missing. Hope that makes sense.

Hi Bob,
Thanks very much for taking the time to come back to me.
I am struggling to understand what an 'MX record' is that I have to set up on my MS side.
The only thing I can think of which I will have to set up is the various email addresses. But the problem with that is I cannot do it until MS have confirmed we own our domain! Catch 22!
Best regards
Chris

[#6]

Quote from: C6REW

I am struggling to understand what an 'MX record' is that I have to set up on my MS side.

It's basically another variant of this:

Quote

Priority: 32767 Host name: @ Points to address or value: msxxxxxxxx.msv1.invalid TTL: 3600

i.e. exactly what you're trying to set up to prove ownership. The MX record would be set up at our side and is essentially what tells the Internet where to route the email for your domain. At the moment, your MX record points to us:

MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = mx.avasin.plus.net.

When you flick the manual record switch, that record will get removed and instead your email will point here:

MX preference = 32766, mail exchanger = ms16534807.msv1.invalid.yourdomain.tld.

So email won't get delivered because ms16534807.msv1.invalid.yourdomain.tld isn't configured to accept messages for your domain.
When you run through verification, Microsoft will give you another MX record like this:

MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = <domain-key>.mail.protection.outlook.com.

It's that record that tells the Internet to send messages to Microsoft instead of us, and it's that record I was suggesting is added at the same time as the verification one you're trying to add at the moment.
Unfortunately, reading this suggests you won't be able to obtain the proper record until verification has been completed via the Microsoft portal. If there's some way of Microsoft providing this before verification then we can keep email loss to a minimum. Otherwise, you're looking at a day or so where you're likely to lose emails.

[#7]

@Bob
For the MX verification record has it been confirmed that the Plusnet interface will accept leaving the left field empty? And that the terminating full stop should NOT be added to the "invalid" MS verification record so the user's domain is added after it?
Since changing to manual DNS will remove the existing MX record for mail, would it work if an equivalent one, perhaps with Preference = 5 was added at the same time to keep mail going to Plusnet whilst MS verify domain ownership and provide the Office365 key value for entry as (say) preference 20, ...? Then once these are in place removing the Plusnet record would provide an instant switch.
David

[#8]

Quote from: spraxyt

For the MX verification record has it been confirmed that the Plusnet interface will accept leaving the left field empty?

Yes. That's how it's currently configured as per my reply here.

Quote from: spraxyt

And that the terminating full stop should NOT be added to the "invalid" MS verification record so the user's domain is added after it?

It *should* be (and is) added.

Quote from: spraxyt

Since changing to manual DNS will remove the existing MX record for mail, would it work if an equivalent one, perhaps with Preference = 5 was added at the same time to keep mail going to Plusnet whilst MS verify domain ownership and provide the Office365 key value for entry as (say) preference 20, ...? Then once these are in place removing the Plusnet record would provide an instant switch.

No, I don't believe so. Last time I checked, our mail platform refuses messages sent to users that don't have their domain configured for POP3 collection.

[#9]

Hi Bob,
Thanks again for taking the time to respond
Once MS have accepted that we own the domain I was under the impression that I could revert everything back to normal so my emails will be back again via plusnet? I guess that will take two nights. So if I start the process tonight I can complete it hopefully by Sunday?
Basically I change my emails settings to the following late this evening:
Other:    I wish to specify DNS records for mail to this domain
Then fingers crossed, MS will recognise that we own the domain by morning.
Set up all of my emails using my domain on the MS exchange account.
Again fingers crossed our emails will then start to come through to the exchange account.
Then tomorrow later in the day I can revert my emails settings on my plusnet account back to POP 3.
Or have I misinterpreted what I have to do?
Regards

Chris

[#10]

Hi David,
Thanks for your help on this as well. Just spotted your comments after I posted.

Hi Bob and David,
It seems to me that all the problems I am having are associated with having to set up an MX record.
I have been reading a number of external posts and came across this one again:
https://community.office365.com/en-us/f/148/t/223157?ss=6fcf2d9d-9e8c-4e27-85db-c3d657e3d4cb&ss-src=...
Part way down a 'former user' talks about a way of adding a cname record even though MS don't give the information. He seems to think that is should be straightforward and doesn't loose emails.
Do you think this is a possibility for me? If so what should I enter into the plusnet fields?
Best regards

Chris

[#11]

Quote from: C6REW

Basically I change my emails settings to the following late this evening: Other:    I wish to specify DNS records for mail to this domain

Yes. You can do that now. The change won't kick in until early hours.

Quote from: C6REW

Then fingers crossed, MS will recognise that we own the domain by morning.

Hopefully. If not, try a little later in the day.

Quote from: C6REW

Set up all of my emails using my domain on the MS exchange account.

You're missing a step I think. As I understand it, you will then need to use the MS portal to find out what your 'proper' MX record is. You'll need to use this to set up a second MX record via the Plusnet website (you can probably delete the verification one whilst you're there, although there's little harm in leaving it to begin with). Use the verification record I set up as a guide i.e. blank on the left, the relevant priority (use 10 if MS don't specify), and the MX record on the right with a dot after it.

Quote from: C6REW

Again fingers crossed our emails will then start to come through to the exchange account.

It will take overnight Saturday/Sunday for the second MX record to propagate. With any luck though, the mail should start filtering through on Sunday.

Quote from: C6REW

Then tomorrow later in the day I can revert my emails settings on my plusnet account back to POP 3.

Not sure why you'd want to do this. Assuming mail is going to your exchange account (and that's what you want) then you should leave things as they are.

[#12]

Hi Bob,
Many thanks for confirming.
Did you see my second post about creating a cname record? What do you think, is that possible? It could save me any grief I guess with loosing emails.
Regards
Chris

[#13]

Quote from: C6REW

Did you see my second post about creating a cname record? What do you think, is that possible? It could save me any grief I guess with loosing emails.

Should be possible yes so we can give it a go if you'd prefer? Do you use your Plusnet webspace?

[#14]

Hi Bob,
Got to be worth a try if you know what needs adding.
If you mean my web site, I currently don't have anything on there apart from a phone number.
Regards
Chris

[#15]

Microsoft list four CNAME records to be added, but the key one appears to be one having the ms code in the left field.
@Bob (sorry) does the Plusnet system accept anything other than www and ccgi entered there?