FTTC and VOIP.

[#1]

Have you discussed this with Plusnet house moves yet?  They might be the best people to explore connecting to the new property.

Here is an out of the box thought: How long do you anticipate that it will be between you occupying the new build and selling the existing property?  If several months, then you might consider having the builder lay an ethernet cable and telephone extension cable between the two properties.  Is the distance between the two less than 100m?

Leave the router where it is, plug in the ethernet cable and on the other end, install a switch and WAP device.  That would provide uninterrupted broadband during the move whilst you consider other options.  By that time the new property should be on all of the relevant databases and FTTP might even have arrived at that location.

Your existing telephone (or a DECT base station) can be plugged in on the end of the telephone cable.

When the new service is installed, just chop off the cables at each end...

[#2]

@zeichen 

I would give it a week to see if you get any answer and also to see if @NickBS  can help.

You could also try the PN COTs team mentioned earlier or the House Moving team.

You posted earlier that the new build is on the PO database but, just in case, do you have the UPRN number for the build? It might just be needed for checking purposes.

If you do get a response for somebody what you're looking for is a WBC SOGEA line installed prior to moving in.

To move onto your other problem - that of a phone service. If I read an earlier post correctly you're in contract until Sep 2025. You are highly likely to have to move onto a digital service. As I see it you have 3 choices.

1) Stay with PN and sort your own VOIP service.

2) Transfer to BT / EE. No need to sort out a VOIP service and no early termination charges but lose PN e-mail.

3) Move ISP to someone like Zen Internet. No need to sort out a phone service but early termination charges will probably apply and you lose PN e-mail. It would be your choice to accept these if you really don't want to go to BT.

Brian

[#3]

Thanks everyone, firstly yes I thought of waiting till next week to see if there was a reply before emailing the CEO.  I did find the UPRN no [rather worrying tho because on the map it positioned it  in the middle of the field opposite the house, some 75mtrs away! Anyway, the broadband checker replied -

FTTP is not available.  

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules.CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

If FTTP is not available, why did Openreach quote to my Developer/Builder £2216 plus VAT for the connection. Incidentally, I am guessing that the nearest exchange would be Newton Abbot, some 4-5 miles away & if it ends with a copper cable, why say"copper...by exception?  Also as we have nearly 80mbps now, we are happy with this speed. We dont game or work!

I did contact Plusnet re moving, who advised me that I couldnt switch until we had moved & the house was registered fully with the Council so that Rates would be payable. Although we dont intend leaving this house for months [thanks for the ethernet connection suggestion], we hoped say one week overlap so we could ferry odds & ends over before removals. In a perfect world it would be great to have internet at both houses for a week so at least we can make wifi calls on our mobiles.  Once Openreach are sorted I am hoping to transfer our Provider before we move, either Zen or someone has suggested Sky - as we have SkyQ.

[#4]

One option could be to request a 2nd line at your current address. When the engineer turns up to install it, ask for it to be in the extension at the bottom of the garden 😒

That way your would have 2 working lines for your crossover when moving. Then update the address when moved in.

Might technically be wrong but will give you peace of mind.

[#5]

“If FTTP is not available, why did Openreach quote to my Developer/Builder £2216 plus VAT for the connection”

As mentioned before there is the possibility that was for FTTP ON DEMAND which is a different product.

[#6]

@zeichen 

As per the information supplied in post #14 your current property is supplied by Cabinet 2 on the Ipplepen Exchange.

If you have the UPRN number for your current property what does the location look like in relation to where you are actually live. Do the results from using UPRN for the new build mention anything about VDSL in the results window as opposed to the narrative below? It may be worthwhile speaking to the local council planning department about the location given as they allocate UPRN's.

I asked in a previous post if you had a copy of the e-mail from OR to your builder about the new build. If you have it, could you post the information on here - hiding any personal / address details of course.

I would leave it until Tuesday before e-mailing the OR CEO. Another line of attack (so to speak) is do you have a local newspaper? If so, they might be interested in the story of the OR treatment of a vunerable person.

It is unknown where the FTTP service is routed from but it could well be Newton Abbott. The quote may have been for bring the cable to you from the nearest location that is enabled.

There is website which shows FTTP availability, created from consumers who register their connection. This may give an idea of how close FTTP is to you. Unfortunately I have neither the name or a link for it. I only know of it as it's been posted on the forum before. Perhaps someone will see this and post the link.

Brian

[#7]

@zeichen 

Further information. From your post

"Copper products are only available by exception"

Copper products are analogue services like ADSL or PSTN. Digital services are FTTC, FTTP and VOIP.

FTTC does use the "last mile" of copper from the Cabinet to your property but it is just the copper wire being used instead of Fibre.

Brian

[#8]

Thanks again, Results of the checker -

UPRN 10094797656 on Exchange unknown     

FTTP is not available.

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules.CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

Thank you for your interest

The letter  from Openreach -

Hi,
 Thanks for choosing to register your development with Openreach. Your site has access to the latest Full Fibre gigabit capable infrastructure, enabling ultrafast speeds for your new build home.
 
Gigabit capable infrastructure is now required in all new build properties across England as per the DCMS legislation change to the Building Regulations 2010. This change came into place from 26^th December 2022 and applies to all new homes gaining planning permission after that date. Openreach Full Fibre infrastructure is fully compliant with the legislation.

As per the notice we gave you when you first registered the site, the initial cost offered by our website was an indicative cost and was subject to change.
 
Although Full Fibre is available at your plot, your contribution required for installation would be higher than the £2,000 per plot cost cap for developers outlined in the Building Regulations. We can still offer a Full Fibre infrastructure install to your total site with a contribution from you of £[2216]+ VAT .
 
Alternatively, we can offer a connection to our [FTTC] network which we calculate would offer Broadband speeds of 68-80Mbps. Note that this infrastructure may not be compliant with Building Regulations, so we suggest discussing this as early as possible with your Building Inspector.
 
To continue your site registration, please complete and return the attached New Sites offer letter. Once you’ve filled in all the relevant yellow fields, reply to this E-mail with your signed agreement as soon as possible and we’ll progress your application. Upon receipt of the signed contract an invoice will be issued & payment will be required within 30 calendar days.

Please be advised, it is important that we receive a signed and completed contract returned promptly on all developments before we can proceed with the build of your Site. To connect your site, we will have to carry out some work within the Public Highway. The actual amount of work required within the Public Highway will vary site by site, so we require a minimum of 3 months lead time from when you sign and return the contract to your First Service Date (FSD).

Where your First Service Date (FSD) is less than 3 months from the date that we have received your signed and completed contract back we will set your FSD on our systems to be 3 months from the date of your contract return. Your prompt return will help us to prevent any delay to the completion of our works and any subsequent delay to the connection of communications services to your end user customers.

Thank you, 
Openreach 

They enclosed this contract to be returned to give 3 months notice - but the FTTP could not be amended, so my Builder asked them to send new form with FTTC, no reply, sent 3 weeks ago, hence no communication.

As far as we can work out our local exchange is not due for fibre, the nearest one guessing would be Newton Abbot, miles away, perhaps the cable would come along the main road but then minor lanes to our village.  Why offer Fibre only if they cannot supply it?
 
 

[#9]

@zeichen 

Having entered several postcodes from your village area into the BT availability checker and not discovered any which have FTTP available (as opposed to 'FTTP on Demand'), and bearing in mind that it seems from your post above that it is a Building Regulations requirement for a Gigabit Internet connection to be installed for new builds which gained planning permission after 26^th December 2022 (which presumably applies to yours?), I'd be sorely tempted to take up the offer of £2216 plus VAT.

Although it might sound extortionate, that figure doesn't seem too bad when compared to some of the amounts I've seen mentioned in threads on the subject of FTTP on Demand on other forums.

And just because I didn't find any premises amongst the few I checked that had FTTP available to them it doesn't mean there aren't any, because if someone applies and pays for FTTP on Demand, then it usually means that other customers on the same DP have FTTP made available (or so I've read in the past), so there may be small pockets of availability in the area.

It'd be interesting to see if that offer of £2216 plus VAT is binding on Openreach or whether they decide it's too low!

[#10]

and bearing in mind that it seems from your post above that it is a Building Regulations requirement for a Gigabit Internet connection to be installed for new builds which gained planning permission after 26^th December 2022

The regs only require it if the cost is below the £2000 cap. If not then the next fastest alternative can be installed and still be compliant with building regs. In this case FTTC is available and should be able to be installed.

[#11]

@zeichen 

Thanks for the information.

If I've read it correctly, FTTC (on SOGEA) was offered, but the attached contract was for FTTP only. That's an improvement on what's been discussed before.

So what you're looking for now is a contract from OR for the FTTC (SOGEA) install.

Brian

[#12]

---

@MisterW wrote:

and bearing in mind that it seems from your post above that it is a Building Regulations requirement for a Gigabit Internet connection to be installed for new builds which gained planning permission after 26^th December 2022

The regs only require it if the cost is below the £2000 cap. If not then the next fastest alternative can be installed and still be compliant with building regs. In this case FTTC is available and should be able to be installed.

---

Thanks for making that clear @MisterW .

So does that mean that if the cost had been £1999 (or £2000) then that would have been the only option and that figure would have to be paid by the developer/customer regardless?

If so, then to me the difference required between that and the £2216 plus VAT to be paid in addition would seem not too bad at all.

[#13]

@RobPN 

So does that mean that if the cost had been £1999 (or £2000) then that would have been the only option and that figure would have to be paid by the developer/customer regardless?

That's my take on the regs , yes! but like most regs its difficult to see wood from trees in the actual regs

I looked at this

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1108...

which seems (fairly!) clear...

If so, then to me the difference required between that and the £2216 plus VAT to be paid in addition would seem not too bad at all.

I would agree with that but its still a (probably) unexpected expense. I guess any VAT would be reclaimable on a new build ?

[#14]

@zeichen 

Rather than post it on a public forum could you send me a copy of hte attachment via a private message. I just wnat to see exactly what it says. Hide any personal details if possible.

To send a PN just click in my id in the left hand pane and the next screen has a Send PM button.

Brian

[#15]

@MisterW 

Referring to my earlier post, unless things have changed since my (much) earlier reading on the subject, as the existing and new build properties are most likely fed from the same DP, then applying for FTTP on Demand for the new build would enable the existing property (and possibly some any neighbours on that DP) to then show as 'FTTP available' on the checker, which might increase the value/sale price of the old house.