Safeguard not enforcing google safe search

[#1]

Thanks @jab1 - I can see there is a lot of confusion around the topic and specifically about ISP interactions with what we see in our browser, and of course this is so far behind the scenes it's hard even to find authoritative information about what PlusNet (or the underlying provider BT) is providing.

As I've mentioned above (and we can see mentioned in the wikipedia article) it is absolutely possible for an ISP to configure their services in such a way as to prevent various search engine safe search features being configured on the PC/phone. I mention a few possible ways this can be accomplished above (DNS mapping to a slightly different URL which won't show a configurable safe search, or the others which adjust the request to include a flag which causes the search engine to not return such results).

I suspect the challenge in this case is that BT (or OpenReach or whatever) are the provider of this mechanism which PlusNet and others leverage (as I mentioned before, the SafeGuard DNS addresses show they are owned by BT).

[#2]

Is anyone else using Google SafeSearch who can confirm whether it is working or not when SafeGuard is enabled ?

It is unusual for a topic of this sort to have dragged on for a month with no one else chiming in saying "it works for me".

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[#3]

Hi

I've recently joined Plusnet and, over the last couple of days, have been trying to check Safeguard works as I'd expect. Pornography is blocked amongst other things and I've rebooted the hub after activating.

When I search for pornography on Google, it lists some of the common websites but I'm blocked if I try and enter it. However, if I look at images I can see the option to choose Safesearch setting - I can therefore access images etc that way.

I've also tried unblocking pornography on Safeguard - I can then access the websites, so Safeguard is clearing working to some degree. However, not nearly well enough if you have young children as I do

Joe

[#4]

Hi 

Thank you for your recent message.

The plusnet safeguard can only block websites which is why it is blocking the common sites. It cannot block certain search paramaters on google or google images unless you added google too the blocked list. we would reccommend have the safesearch setting that you mentioned for google turned on to provide the safest possible browsing for your children"

Thanks

Lee

[#5]

Assuming that Plusnet's SafeGuard is based on BT's Parental Controls.

From  BT : I've got a problem with BT Parental Controls 

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I have BT Parental Controls turned on, but search engine results and images are inappropriate - why aren't these blocked?

BT Parental Controls doesn't inspect content returned from a site, it looks at the URL and the category it has been assigned to. Sites such as Google are defined as 'Search Engines' and are not blocked by BT Parental Controls.

As part of the Parental Controls service, we have automatically enabled Google and Bing SafeSearch.

However, other search engines may not have this feature to turn on by users.There are options to help with this:

• Create a personalised filter level and block the 'Search Engines' category. You could then add one particular search engine to your allowed list
• Turn on child safety features that may exist in your devices and for apps like YouTube, use apps that are designed specifically for kids like YouTube for Kids

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Can one of the SuperUsers 'escalate' this topic to get a definitive answer from a technical authority within Plusnet

as to why Plusnet "SafeGuard" is no longer behaving in the same way that BT's "Parental Control" does for SafeSearch ?

@Townman ?

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[#6]

Done.

[#7]

Thanks @Townman  !

I don't understand why the community staff that have replied find it so difficult to get their heads around this problem.

If I can get my pfSense router to implement SafeSearch on my LAN,  then it's trivial for Plusnet's SafeGuard to do the same !

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[#8]

Probably the difference between front line and the infrastructure engineers.  I'll wait for a pick-up on the escalation.

I'm surprised at the 'development' around this topic, as I'd expected nothing more than URL look up restrictions by the safeguarding DNS, not also the fiddling with requested URLs as would be required to change a google search.  It begs the question of where does such 'interference' start to draw the lines?  There are lots of other alternative search engines, so where next?  Is someone out there going to expect even more pseudo safeguarding substitution for parental supervision across all of the other search engines?

Whatever, you've raised a valid observation on functionality: if this works for BT users, why not also for Plusnet users ... especially as I thought PN used BT's safeguarding platform!!

[#9]

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@Townman wrote:

There are lots of other alternative search engines, so where next?  Is someone out there going to expect even more pseudo safeguarding substitution for parental supervision across all of the other search engines?

The answer to that was in Reply #20 -

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However, other search engines may not have this feature to turn on by users.There are options to help with this:

• Create a personalised filter level and block the 'Search Engines' category. You could then add one particular search engine to your allowed list

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[#10]

1) The Plusnet safeguard system works by configuring a different DNS server for your broadband service. This is a "network level" thing, and all it is doing is either simply not looking up any "naughty" websites, or possibly giving a different IP address for a service. Note that DNS has NO INTERACTION with the page your web browser actually requests, (and thus the Google SafeSense system)... that is an APPLICATION LEVEL thing

2) A Network Level firewall does the same: it can block access to specific IP addresses, and protects your PCs at a network level... that's why it's called a "Network Level Firewall". The "Firewall" in your Plusnet router works at this level

3) An Application Level firewall is a LOT more powerful, and CAN indeed block / adjust web browser requests. Such devices use a LOT more processing power, and typically cost a lot of $$. These are the sort of devices used by schools an businesses, and have an IT person who manages it.

Now, I guess it's possible that the Plusnet Safeguard system does a special DNS lookup that then sends you to a "special" Google web server, which then serves web pages that enforce SafeSearch. Unlikely, but possible.

[#11]

Plusnet can enforce this at the network level if they wish from my understanding of this
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/186669?hl=en

[#12]

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@paul_blitz wrote:

I guess it's possible that the Plusnet Safeguard system does a special DNS lookup that then sends you to a "special" Google web server, which then serves web pages that enforce SafeSearch. Unlikely, but possible.

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Why is this so hard to believe ?

Since the beginning of time, Microsoft Windows and Linux has allowed users to modify the configuration to intercept DNS lookups and respond with an alternative IP address.

Intercepting a DNS lookup for "google.com" and returning the IP address (216.239.38.120) of "forcesafesearch.google.com"

should be as easy as -

Open file  C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts  in a text editor (e.g., Notepad) with administrative privileges.

Add an entry in the format  <IP_ADDRESS> <DOMAIN_NAME>

216.239.38.120  google.com

Save the file and flush the DNS cache by running ipconfig /flushdns in Command Prompt.

Therefore it should be trivial for Plusnet's SafeGuard DNS servers to have the "hosts" file modified as stated.

The other thing you are missing, is that this and other previous topics, are complaining that Google SafeSearch was previously working as expected when SafeGuard was enabled.  The question is why has it stopped working on Plusnet, but continues to work on the BT platform ?.

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[#13]

I have re-escalated this.