FTTP and Residential number porting

[#1]

@notcloud

A lot off-topic, but many years ago (early '80s) I was was living and working in Ireland. At the time the telephone network was quite basic. You had to get long distance calls to other parts of Ireland patched through by 1 or more operators. This meant there was no simple system to cost outgoing calls for companies sharing office space with a single PBX system.

I had to develop a system for calculating costs by extension. This entailed linking a small data recorder to the PBX box using an RS232 cable (made by me). Analysis of the data extracted was quite easy and I could calculate cost of calls based on their duration and and location of recipient (Dublin to Dublin calls were cheaper than Dublin to Cork). This may sound crude with modern telephone systems but it worked.

Initial testing in our office was quite revealing as there was one 20 minute call from the phone in the lift. We never found out who made it.

[#2]

After waiting so many years for FTTP, to be told I have to loose the landline is a real downer. We run a business that advertises the landline on our van, so we can't be without it. We have a domain with PlusNet and whilst I can switch to BT, I don't want the hassle of moving the domain. My elderly dad and my in-laws are with PlusNet. Their generation only uses the landline and the loss of theirs means none of their friends/family could contact them. In contrast, I have a friend who is with BT and switched to FTTP but BT have left his copper line/number in place. I wonder whether BT intend to remove the copper at a later date. If BT can keep existing landlines, why can't PlusNet?

[#3]

@KAR 

For whatever reason PlusNet took a corporate (ie commercial) decision not to offer a phone service. Their ADSL / VDSL offerings require a number (and line) to work therefore you can't port you number out before FTTP is installed. This would cancel your account and any FTTP order in progress. Having said that, one user did manage the feat - number was ported late in the day and FTTP installed the following day. By the time PN caught up with things they were up and running. This was / would be a pure gamble.

Can't offer any opinion on Domain matters. Perhaps a staff member will pick up on this.

While BT allow you to retain your number on FTTP it's via their proprierty Digital Voice service - VOIP in other words.

As regards copper wires OpenReach appear to leave them in place where the service is provided via underground ducts but where the feed is overhead the copper cable is usually replaced with a fibre one. A while back it was a hybrid copper / fibre cable but with the planned withdrawal of PSTN under way it is fibre only now (I believe).

Brian

[#4]

Unfortunately if you move to another provider, we currently can't carry on registering or hosting your domain as we no longer offer email only accounts. Appreciate the hassle it'll cause to keep your landline number that's important to you. 

[#5]

It seems so short-sighted that PlusNet won't let us retain our landline number. Several members of my family are PlusNet customers and all need to retain their existing landline number. All would prefer to stay with PlusNet. I don't understand PlusNet's reasoning, especially as PlusNet is part of BT who are letting their customers retain their landline number (that is what is happening locally).

[#6]

@KAR I suspect this is because BT (as the parent company) see PN  as the 'bargain basement' offering amongst their brands, so to keep costs as low as possible, they offer a bare-bones service.

[#7]

The real problem here is OFCOM being asleep at the wheel.
Now that Openreach have set a timescale to stop providing POTS and full fibre is being rolled out, they should regulate to force ISP's and Openreach to allow number porting to a VoIP provider of choice.

[#8]

@RichardB They should, but in usual OFCOM fashion, they are washing their hands of the problem - 'we'll leave it up to ISPs/CPs' because we don't really know what we are supposed to be'.

[#9]

Its mainly because PN do not yet offer FTTP to other people other than those on PN already. Its as if BT are trying to wind PN up as a company by forcing those already here, off the PN platform regarding voice, thus pushing them to BT. If PN were to offer existing users the ability to setup a new FTTP account to run concurrently alongside their FTTC account, then the FTTP could be installed, you could port over to a SIP VOIP service, and retain voice but digitally. @KAR as for hosting the company I work for use Krystal hosting. We`ve been with them for ages, way back when they were Blackfoot Hosting. UK based, easy to get hold of, keenly priced. A bit like PN, but for hosting

[#10]

A few weeks ago I read in a number of financial pages of the press that BT were planning to stop their ISP business. EE would become their premium brand and PN remain as the budget brand. It would certainly simplify things for BT.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/04/bt-group-turning-ee-into-its-flagship-brand-for-uk-con... 

[#11]

Quite a lot of discussion here regarding the landline, however I don’t think it’s been mention like this

LandLINE connects your old fttp
Then the NUMBER is unique to you

I’m looking at upgrading but need to retain the number. (Similar to how bt do with digital voice and sipgate with voip)

The question is, is there any way of changing to a new number with plusnet (and keeping the line) then keeping the old number to transfer to sipgate?

Or put another way, if I transfer the number to sipgate why can plusnet not give a new number and keep the line with fttp (then we’d upgrade to full fibre on that)

After all the line still exists and a number is simply running on it.

[#12]

@ukguy1  Openreach have a type of order on their system called something like "Renumber with Export" which would do exactly what you and many others want. Export your existing number to a VOIP provider and give your landline a new number.

Do Plusnet use this type of order, you've guessed the answer. NO.  Don't know why, probably some excuse that their ordering system can't do it, or they deliberately choose not to offer it.☹️

[#13]

AFAIK there's only one ISP that will attempt a renumber with export, that's A & A and they will only do it to transfer the number to their own voip product. The problem AIUI is that basically it's two separate orders, the renumber with export and the port to voip and, as we know, the Openreach system doesnt handle multiple orders well! If there are two different suppliers involved e'g sipgate raise the port order and PN raise the renumber and one side of the order fails, the other supplier doesnt get to know about it and their side of the order completes leaving either the line ceased or the port cancelled and the number lost. In A & A's situation they can see both orders and if one fails, can cancel the other before its too late.

[#14]

@RealAleMadrid thanks

I guess the export option is the kind of thing used when upgrading.

What I was thinking is whether the current fttp could simply be switched to a new number. Then add the old number to voip sipgate
But I guess what I didn’t think about is it’s the “porting bit” and keeping hold of the old number after a new number is given to the line.

The old number probably disappears into thin air once a new number is allocated unless it’s properly ported!

I think we are back then to the only option being to wait until fttp is available as new installs. It’s annoying as I’m currently paying £24 for 13mb and they are offering upgrades to 38 and 74 for almost the same or +£2!

Plusnet are making this difficult!

[#15]

“ What I was thinking is whether the current fttp could simply be switched to a new number.”

FTTP doesn’t have a telephone number. There are some internal ids but they are for identification and not used in any way for communication.