FTTP and Residential number porting

[#1]

When I started this thread in early June I was quite (read very) unhappy to lose my phone number on changing to FTTP. Nevertheless I was sort of forced to change to FTTP, and since I wanted to stay with Plusnet I accepted that loss. Since the change the connection has worked almost flawlessly, but despite sending out a change of number email to a lot of contacts, I'm getting letters from old friends asking if we're dead!

However, the reason I'm writing is that although I was on Plusnet for both FTTC and phone, up until earlier this year the contracts were separate - I paid an annual line rental for the phone and monthly for the internet. When I renewed my phone contract I was told I 'had' to go to a monthly phone contract. In hindsight I should had ported my number out then, My question really is whether this was a deliberate ploy to get everyone linked together so that we end up with a thread this long?

[#2]

the contracts were separate - I paid an annual line rental for the phone and monthly for the internet. When I renewed my phone contract I was told I 'had' to go to a monthly phone contract. In hindsight I should had ported my number out then, 

The contracts weren't separate, your contract was still for both line rental & broadband. Its just that there was an option to pay for line rental in advance called 'Line rental saver'. Like many other ISP's , Plusnet dropped the LRS option.

You would not have been able to port the number without the broadband ceasing as well.

[#3]

There’s a fine line between a deliberate ploy and disregard for the broad needs of a wide user base. There is a significant disposition that “most” do not want a voice service over a “fixed” line. Consequently with Plusnet there is no voice option with FTTP.

However that should not have precluded a graceful migration of the phone NUMBER to an alternative digital provider.

The overall strategy is hard to discern as comments in the industry suggest that the BT brand’s long term direction is business, not residential.

[#4]

@Townman It maybe that BT want to become a business only but then they will have to change their mentality and the way they operate.  So far they have not been able to demonstrate that they can roll out FTTP effectively and with their customers in mind even when they will port a telephone number.  It looks like Ofcom is watching them at present due to some of the issues. 

I think that with PN that subscribers should have had an option with or without a phone, and a method of porting their number,  not if you want a phone transfer to BT or leave.  The phone could still be VoIP but the number ported, with advise on the issues when power is lost.  Many have used their analogue phone as a backup, and even I who has cordless phones had a standard handset in a drawer just in case.  (And what are we going to do when we have no standard phone and we need to find where we have mislaid our mobile? 😀)  

However it is not just PN that are taking the FTTP only line. "TalkTalk" is doing the same in my area.  It will be interesting to see what Sky does in due course  as they tend to use Openreach here and they are also transferring satellite users over to terrestrial at reduced costs when they have FTTC inclusive of phone line.  I don't know anybody locally that is using FTTP, but going on other posters it appears they will still offer a ported phone connection via FTTP.  Not had any flyers from Sky through the letterbox recently relating to FTTP

[#5]

It seems that some suppliers have decided that the vast majority of the demographic that will change to FTTP, doesn't want a landline facility, they exclusively use mobiles!

... and they may be right, only time will tell?

So their FTTP ordering/account systems don't need (or have) the facility to associate a telephone number. Providing a voip facility would probably not be cost effective unless the ISP already has one.

As to a 'graceful' means to port the number out , then yes , I agree it ought to be provided. The problem is that it relies on Openreach providing it. Currently a method does exist, its called 'renumber and export' but it's anything but graceful!! It's prone to error , leaving services ceased and ending in disaster. In fact only one ISP will attempt it, and only to their in-house voip.

What is needed is OFCOM to tell Openreach to provide a more resilient method of retaining a number. At the moment, when a landline is ceased, the number is quarantined for a period and can't re automatically reallocated anyway. Maybe all that's needed is for a method whereby another provider can, given sufficient evidence of previous ownership by the customer, port the quarantined number. 

It's going to be a MUCH bigger problem later next year, I've just got a email from Zen (who supply the office), saying that no new copper landline orders will be possible (nationwide) after Sept 2023, so any migrations will have to move any landline number to voip. 

[#6]

@Total_Chaos, we had a leaflet through the door about 'Full Fibre' from Sky and it states in the (very) small and pale print at the bottom that "All prices include Sky Talk Pay As You Talk (new 18 month min. term applies)." Further on there is a warning that it's not suitable for anyone who uses emergency services over their landline or hasn't a mobile signal. Then it explains that it's an internet phone service using the broadband connection. Right at the end it's talking about individual call costs and what happens if Sky Talk is not your phone provider.
So, if Sky can manage it then Plusnet should be able to, though Sky doesn't mention if you can keep your number.
I have read about Ofcom becoming involved with what happens about calls when there is no power, and about maybe providing a back-up power supply and other ideas. It seems to be a work in progress, but official shut off of the copper service is still scheduled for the end of 2025.

[#7]

@MisterW As you know, I am with Zen, but my exchange - currently - does not appear to be getting FTTP until the very last minute, so I have a while to think of my options.

At the moment, I make all outgoing calls, including 0800 numbers, on the mobile and only have two people who use the landline to call me. They both have mobiles, but as neither of them like using in-ear earpieces, and the calls are usually quite long, they use over-ear headsets which are incompatible with the mobiles.No doubt there are over-ear headsets which would work with mobiles, but that is more expense that they don't need.

I am therefore seriously considering whether it is worth going VoIP when the PSTN network is retired - one of the two is a very elderly, not particularly well gentleman who probably hasn't got much longer, the other lives alone, so could just put the mobile on speaker, but knowing her, she will probably find a headset if needed. In other words, no, I doubt I will bother with VoIP.

[#8]

In other words, no, I doubt I will bother with VoIP.

@jab1 what you really mean is you won't bother with a landline. That lends strength to ISP's decision that landline numbers won't be used by a large majority of the population.

I've used voip for some while now, at first using for outgoing calls to reduce costs, then when I moved house (and to FTTP) to retain my old landline number on the basis that lots of people knew it. In fact, now I get very few calls on it (and even less that I actually want!), other than my daughters calling their mum, who does have a mobile but is a bit of a technophobe!. My main use of voip currently is for calls between ourselves and relatives who have an account with the same voip provider, as this means free calls.

does not appear to be getting FTTP until the very last minute, so I have a while to think of my options.

If what Zen say is correct, that orders for a copper landline will not be accepted after Sept 2023, then that's going to limit migration possibilities for existing FTTC & landline customers long before the actual PSTN switch off.

[#9]

Yep, I did mean I won't bother - sure I proof-read before I posted!

As I said, no outgoing calls, and only two who call me on the landline, to me, at least, I have no real need for a VoIP provision, but will keep my options open.

As to migration, I will hang on to the FTTC connection as long as I can - yes I know 'Full Fibre', as they seem to want it called is supposed to be more robust/error free &c. - but for my modest needs my current setup is more than sufficient, and I don't want to be shelling out for something I don't really need - I am a Yorkshireman, after all.😁

[#10]

So;

1. If you upgrade to FTTP, you lose your analogue telephone number.

2. Whereas, if you subscribe to a new FTTP service, leaving your existing ADSL\VDSL (FTTC) service running, then once the FTTP is active, port your analogue telephone number to another provider, this terminates the original service, along with any  domain & email, plus referral discounts.

For those of us who, for the time being, remain on ADSL\VDSL services with associated analogue landline, BEFORE the end of 2025, Opeanreach will need to assigned a new property identifiers (presumably Access Line ID or UPRN).

Once this has been assigned, surely we can then freely port our number out, as it’s no longer used as the property (service) identifier?

Brian

[#11]

@TheMightyAJ , sorry not to have got back to you sooner. I checked my connection again and it had gone back to what it was when I originally srarted on FTTC, so I'm well pleased with that. Thanks.

[#12]

Thanks for getting back to me @Mad_Moggies and I'm very glad to hear that's the case! It should stay like that for a while now, hopefully never dipping in performance again - but if it does, just give me a shout and I'll be happy to assist

[#13]

I was told by someone from "provisioning" that all I have to do is contact a VOIP provider and arrange to port my number, giving them the expected FTTP installation date. The person was extremely unhelpful and actually cut me off before I could get any further details. Xinix, a VOIP provider also says that I can do this but reading all the comments on this subject it seems really unlikely! YoufFibre offer a full fibre and VOIP service, keeping existing number, on the Netomnia network, which is not yet live but is planned in my area. Perhaps I should cancel my FTTP upgrade until I can switch to a Netomnia ISP? Like most people, all I wish to do is to keep my existing telephone number. Why is this so much to ask. Why on earth haven't Plusnet considered this when offering the service? Unless I can keep my nuber, I will cancel my upgrade.

[#14]

Hi @KeithKnight,

I'm really sorry for the bad experience you've had. If it helps I can arrange for one of my colleagues to call you back to sign you up to BT's FTTP and Digital Voice service as a way of keeping your landline number? 

That way you won't have to pay any potential cancellation fees for ending your existing contract early.

What do you think?

[#15]

Yes please. As long as I can keep my number and don't have to pay any account termination charges. I can't believe any ISP would offer FTTP without VOIP and the option to port numbers. This is a huge inconvenience to millions of people and a big hole in the market. Thanks. When can I expect a call?