FTTP and Residential number porting

[#1]

No worries, could you private message me your phone number and a timeframe when you'd be available?

My colleagues can generally do anytime 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday and occasionally weekends. 

[#2]

Ideally, Plusnet should also be offering customers the ability to drop the 'landline' element from existing ADSL & VDSL (FTTC Super Fast), for those customers who no longer want a phone number.

I'm not sure about Openreach's maintenance costs of supporting broadband only using copper to exchange (ADSL), but surely the maintenance of FTTC is the same as FTTP.

Currently, the only way of dropping the phone number (landline) with Plusnet is to upgrade to FTTP (Ultra Fast).

But I guess we'll just have to wait until Openreach force this scenario by 2025.

[#3]

Not sure how that would work as FTTC requires a copper phone line unless you mean SOGEA? In this case, the physical line is still there but with no voice calls.  

[#4]

Maintenance of FTTC is more akin to voice than FTTP as the most vulnerable part is the cabinet to home copper circuit. Dropping voice on ADSL / FTTC removes the cabinet to exchange copper trunk cable which is low maintenance … unless some toe rag rips it out.

[#5]

The explanation Openreach have given for the retirement of analogue phone lines by the end of 2025 is…

“Openreach has been informed by its supplier (BT Group) that it intends to upgrade all of its customers from analogue (PSTN) to digital (all IP) telephone services by 2025. 

The reality is that the equipment which runs the PSTN is ageing. Spare parts are becoming out of manufacture and, additionally, many of the people who designed, built and operated the system are retired or close to retirement so skills are increasingly scarce.”

There is no mention about the maintenance of the distribution infrastructure, i.e. the copper or fibre that runs from the exchange to properties, or that everyone will be forced down the FTTP route in order to achieve this, and indeed, in some rural areas, the option may only be FTTC, or possibly ADSL.

As Townman has pointed out, the copper trunk from cabinet to exchange for ADSL should be low maintenance, it’s the PSTN equipment in the exchange that’s the problem.

Therefore, Openreach must have a plan to move the ADSL & FTTC off the PSTN equipment with the minimum effort.

SOGEA requires the activation of another copper pair, so in certainly more labour intensive that switching over the existing copper pair to a non-PSTN connection. However, I understand little about the connection in the cabinet or exchange.

In the case of FTTC, as the broadband element runs in fibre from cabinet to exchange, surely it’s just disconnecting the copper trunk PSTN side, if ISP’s can handle the move away from PSTN number identification for the service.

[#6]

@Townman said

"Maintenance of FTTC is more akin to voice than FTTP as the most vulnerable part is the cabinet to home copper circuit. Dropping voice on ADSL / FTTC removes the cabinet to exchange copper trunk cable which is low maintenance … unless some toe rag rips it out. "

Though from an operational viewpoint this is correct fibre is more prone to crushing, etc.  This is an issue when fibre is run in the ground with minimal, or no mechanical protection.  Some lorry, etc runs over the ground, and presto crushed fibre.  The other issue is it being pulled up, broken, etc by other utilities, or similar. Overhead is better unless brought down by high winds, high trucks, etc.  Many places are likely to be a mixture of ducts, (that get wet and sometime full of water), and overhead.  However some will have the fibre moled and rise outside their properties, often going under a road, their garden, lawn, etc. The issue here is that it may start off at 500 mm below ground level, but due to the topology is much closer to the surface closer to the property.

[#7]

@bgiles 

Certain parts of the UK already have had an issue where OpenReach has tried to migrate them to FTTP, only for the residents to find out that not only have they not got a BT/OpenReach powered landline, but they are in an area where there is no mobile signal.  One of the issues that has not been taken sufficiently into consideration along with emergency medical systems that rely on a landline.  Though I accept that a large percentage of users can live without a landline there are others that definitely require one, even if it goes via VoIP with battery/UPS backup to run their internal equipment.  I also don't think Ofcom took these sort of things into enough consideration, or maybe they thought that BT/OpenReach would find a way around it. 

I still think that the majority of people in the UK don't realise the implications in going FTTP.  If they only use their mobile no issue, but if they use their landline and feel they need it then that is different.  At present there is the possibility of a very large number of UK citizens having to change their landline number to a virtual number, and advising everybody of that.  Long term I think, other than businesses, etc and many of them will already be on VoIP, that most of us will be using our mobile numbers and we will find a way around the other issues, but we are not there yet!

[#8]

Thanks Total_Chaos

Whilst I personally have no issues losing my landline, as I've been using VoIP for several years, and could easily move from FTTC to FTTP, you correct in pointing out that every customer should;

1. Be made aware of the planned retirement of analogue phones by end of 2025, and the potential loss of the associated phone number.
2. Given an easy option of moving the number to VoIP without having to change their broadband service (e.g. forced to move to BT in the case of Plusnet customers).

The case remains that there are millions of analogue phones still in use, and Openreach, along with ISP's need to provide a way of moving these with minimum disruption and stress to customers, which is far from the case at present.

[#9]

Gandalf

Yesterday by private message you offered me an urgent call-back from a colleague to discuss switching to BT + Digital voice to resolve my problem. As there is a Plusnet full fibre installation booked already, it is urgent that this matter is dealt with, especially if it has to be rearranged due to a switch to BT. I also need to know all the implications asap. There have been 6 working hours since you offered me this callback. Can you or any other member of staff on the forum today, PLEASE expedite this call, so I can put my mind at rest and make a decision. I am here until 15:15 and again from 16:30 and at all other times during your office hours.

Thank you

Keith

[#10]

Hi Keith,

Sorry for the delay, I'd only logged on today half an hour ago.

When myself or my colleagues on the social media/community forum team request call backs from our Customer Options Team, these are normally fulfilled within 24 hours, unless a specific date or time is specified.

Can we allow until tomorrow morning? If for any reason you don't receive a call by then, let me know and I'll prod somebody. 

Additionally, I've checked your FTTP order and it's due to complete on the 15th November, so there's time to rearrange this. 

[#11]

@KeithKnight - I'll be very interested in the deals that you get offered by BT (if you mind sharing!) as this is the route it is looking like I'm going to have to take.-. The other route of trying to have both FTTC AND FTTP for a short while to allow for a transfer of the phone number to VOIP provider appears to be fraught with difficulty since everyone I've talked to in my area has seen their Cu line ripped out to allow the full fibre install!

[#12]

@davidj66 Forget the hit and miss approach. Most likely to fail. If you try to port before the upgrade, it will delete your Plusnet account lock stock and barrel, including the upgrade (as it is keyed to the landline number) and if you try to port on the day, your number is very likely to disappear into the void for re-use by the next new customer in your area. There is simply no way to guarantee success and Plusnet don't really want you to succeed or they would've provided a sensible internet phone option like BT and YouFibre has. My call back will obviously consist of cancelling my contract (without a termination penalty) and opening a new account with BT, porting my landline number = Full fibre and Digital voice. Standard phones plug into the green phone socket on the super hub 2 backplate which acts as an ATA (Analogue phone adapter). BT owns Plusnet so they are keeping it in the family rather than losing me and those like me altogether. There is NO OTHER guaranteed method. Several VOIP providers claim to be able to port the number on the day of the upgrade but trust me, there is very little chance of that ever working.

Best of luck

Keith

[#13]

At present, if a Plusnet customer wants to upgrade to FTTP and retain their analogue phone number, there are only 2 options;

1. Ask Plusnet to move you to BT, who offer a VoIP service, but whose FTTP service is significantly more than Plusnet, and VoIP probably more that other VoIP providers.
2. Sign up to FTTP as a NEW customer, in the hope that Openreach don’t have to take out your ADSL/FTTC copper pair when installing this. Once your FTTP is running, port your analogue phone number to a VoIP provider, which will automatically terminate the existing ADSL/FTTC contract with Plusnet.

Unfortunately both these scenarios mean you will lose your Plusnet email, domain & referrals discounts, should you have any.

[#14]

@bgiles Any upgrade to full fibre loses you your copper pair. Unless you have TWO lines, FTTC and FTTP and I don't know if that is possible, there is no way to have a non-ceased line to port your existing landline number from when your full fibre goes live. The only guaranteed way to move to full fibre with VOIP (digital voice) is to transfer to BT at this time. It may not be totally imposssible to port your number to a 3rd party VOIP provider on or after full fibre ugrade but it is certainly a hit or miss affair and by no means guaranteed. More than likely you will lose your number. Although OFCOM guidelines guarantee that a customer can port his number to a new provider, Plusnet simply don't care about that. It is not their aim. I assume they are offering penalty free contract cancellation if you transfer to BT to "keep it in the family" rather than lose a customer altogether. They don't seem to care that we have to pay more for full fibre from BT than from Plusnet although to me, that is not fair. Personally, I htink the whole transition to full fibre is rushed and not customer centric. Trying to get through to anyine to discuss this issue ant Plusent is an impossibility. In the meantime as I have searched other providers using their postcode/address checkers, I am getting numerous sales calls from sales people puporting towork for BT and EE combined. These people aree only interested in their commission and I am not inclined to deal with them. I am still wauiting for a call back from someone at Plusnet to decide where I go from here. Currently I have an order in to convert to full fibre on 15th November so I need to decide soon or lose the landline number that dozens of contacts including long lost relative still have. I don't want to do that.

[#15]

@KeithKnight  A number of your statements are incorrect. I don't believe that any upgrade to full fibre results in you losing your copper line, there are cases on the forum where the copper line is left in place and some where it is removed. In fact the Plusnet ordering process for a new customer has a tick box to request that you keep the copper line so it is possible to have an FTTC/ADSL and FTTP service running at the same time. So the line number can then be ported out to a VOIP provider as @bgiles  has stated.

As for switching to BT, no way would I do that. I can't get FTTP yet but already have a VOIP phone service and am not concerned about losing my PSTN line and number.