Landline closure?

[#1]

@encapsulated 

You should be able to change your PN service to SOGEA (internet only). As soon as that completes you can port your number out.

If going with A&A you can set your account up in advance so you're ready to iniatate the port as required. There would be a few days down time on the phone service.

Brian

[#2]

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@encapsulated wrote:

I guess Plusnet realise that there are likely to be advantages in having the same supplier for VOIP and Broadband? It would exercise my brain cells rather more but it has not escaped me that A&A would also give the option of taking over the vDSL FTTC.

And this all started as we heard a discussion on Radio4 You and Yours re the demise of PSTN. Have had nothing directly from Plusnet.

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I agree, it would be a lot simpler and easier to have a single supplier for broadband and phone.  I've been looking again at Andrews and Arnold, and am half-convinced that it may well be worth the extra to have broadband from them as well as a VOIP phone service.  For VDSL broadband (essentially the same as I have now from Plusnet) plus a VOIP phone service from A&A I'd be paying around £12 to £15 a month more than I'm paying for phone and broadband at the moment.   They also offer a reasonable data SIM, with a fixed IP, that would be ideal for our 4G emergency backup data/phone connection.

[#3]

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@encapsulated wrote:

Phew @Baldrick1 

My contract for phone and vDSL FTTC ends in December and based on what had previously been said I was starting to panic a bit. Question I am asking myself now is should I relax until I see how long a new contract I am offered or just get on with the inevitable while I still have some brain cells left (at 78) and port my number to VOIP (most likely with A&A)?

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The choice is yours. 
Be aware that as soon as you move to SOGEA you lose your phone during a power cut. No electricity, no phone. Where I live the mobile masts are also knocked out. This will keep me with the old PSTN phone service for now.

If push comes to shove you can move to an ISP that also offers a VoIP phone service. This is not just BT, most offer both Internet access and phone. Alternatively you can move the phone to a VoIP company, there are many around. However this is not so straight forward.

[#4]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

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The choice is yours. 
Be aware that as soon as you move to SOGEA you lose your phone during a power cut. No electricity, no phone. Where I live the mobile masts are also knocked out. This will keep me with the old PSTN phone service for now.

If push comes to shove you can move to an ISP that also offers a VoIP phone service. This is not just BT, most offer both Internet access and phone. Alternatively you can move the phone to a VoIP company, there are many around. However this is not so straight forward.

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This is something that I think needs a great deal more emphasis.  People are used to landline phones (mostly) always working, so finding that their "landline" stops working when there is a power cut (and when they may well need to use it for an emergency call) is most probably going to cause some consternation, perhaps even loss of life.

I've been looking as closely as I can at how robust alternative solutions are for emergency phone connectivity.  Most obvious is that everyone reliant on a landline is going to have to install some sort of battery backup system to allow VOIP phones to continue to work during a power cut.  Less obvious is that some fibre cabinets don't have much in the way of battery backup, so if you can't get FTTP then it's probable that even a battery-backed-up VOIP phone will fall over when the cabinet runs out of power (ours stops working after about 35 minutes now).

Mobile reliability seems to be a very mixed bag.  We can't get a usable signal here on a phone, but can get one with a couple of high gain directional antennas on the roof, connected to a 4G gateway/router.  What I've found is that some mobile masts have backup power.  The key is to find the mast that is earmarked as part of the Emergency Services Network, I believe.  Those masts have backup batteries and generators, so they can stay operational during a fairly prolonged power outage.  By good fortune, the only mast I can connect to happens to be one of these ones with backup power.

[#5]

Further to my earlier post referring to cost comparisons, I've spent a happy hour or so trying to put together a more accurate comparison between our current arrangement (Plusnet FTTC, with landline phone and evening and weekend call package) and switching to A&A for a complete package (only because Plusnet will not provide a complete package when the PSTN shuts down).

Not as clear cut as I thought, TBH, and a bit surprising in some respects, as the devil is in the detail.  Because we need a robust phone solution when the power goes off (and we have the advantage of already having backup power) I've dismissed using FTTC for the phone.  It's just not reliable enough, as it stops working not long after the grid fails.  A&A offer a VOIP service for £1.44/month (plus VAT), plus call charges at ~1.5p/minute (plus VAT, charged to the nearest second), plus a data-only SIM at £2/month (plus VAT) and a data charge that equates to about £0.053 (plus VAT) per minute.

Ignoring the capital outlay for the 4G gateway/router, antenna, etc, it looks like our monthly landline costs will reduce from an average of about £11.93 to £3.87 (based on what we've paid over the past six months).  That makes the ~£10 higher cost of having an A&A broadband connection as well very close to being the same overall monthly cost as our current Plusnet package.  I will admit to being surprised by this, I really expected that the A&A total cost would be significantly greater.

Needless to say I think this may well swing it for us, given our own particular requirements.  Shame, as I've never had any major issues with the service from Plusnet, and would very happily stick with them if they offered a complete (and reliable) +communications package after the PSTN shutdown.

[#6]

@JSHarris  - what is your O2 GSM coverage like ?, I'm wondering if you could combine A&A SIP2SIM with A&A VoIP ?

That way you could use an old Nokia mobile (with excellent GSM radio), to act as a VoIP landline number extension - WITHOUT having to rely solely on the data from your 4G router for VoIP (therefore giving another connection redundancy path).

With A&A you can register your VoIP account to simultaneously 'ring' multiple targets, e.g. via your FTTC, your 4G, and potentially SIP2SIM mobile.

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[#7]

We don't have any handset coverage from any network, unfortunately.  There are four (five if you include ESN) networks that use the nearest mast to us.  EE are hopeless as they only use the 1800MHz band (doesn't cope with hills and valleys at all).  Three, Vodafone and O2 all have 800MHz band sector antennas that point in our direction, but we're in the shadow of a 200ft hill between us and the mast. 

I can just about get a usable signal with a pair of directional MIMO antennas on top of a 12ft pole, bolted to the ridge of the house.  Not great, but it gives us maybe 5Mb/s to 8Mb/s, so plenty for a VOIP call. 

The 4G gateway I have has two SIM cards.  At the moment I'm using a Lebara SIM (really Vodafone), but the plan is to switch to an A&A SIM in slot one and relegate the Lebara SIM to the secondary slot in the gateway, as a backup.

I have thought of patching the ATA to either the FTTC connection or the 4G gateway, but the cost saving from using FTTC is pretty small, and barely worth the effort of swapping the cable over.  I'll be paying for the 4G connection(s) anyway, so I may as well use them, I think.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Full quote of preceding post removed as per Forum rules.

[#8]

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@encapsulated wrote:

Thanks @MisterW good to know. It is just that if and when there are problems A&A imply you are on your own. My router is a Synology RT2600ac and has a SIP passthrough option - some debate about whether to enable this or disable it. Will try to find out more.

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A&A have an IRC support chat which can be accessed via a link from the account once logged in. I was able to configure my Cisco SPA112 based on the screenshots in their WiKi, but I did run into a problem where I could only make outgoing calls and I found them to be very helpful. Turning on NAT keeplalive was one of the issues. The other involved a rather unusual problem with my specific model of router which required support from the router manufacturer to sort out. Once that problem was dealt with, I was then able to configure a pass-through for the SIP port (5060udp) to the ATA which has worked just fine since. I must admit that I found the advice a little disconcerting at first, but at least they are upfront about the possible inconvenience and are able to assist via IRC. Grandstream is the other ATA that gets a lot of mentions. I narrowed my choice  down to those two and for experimentation purposes purchased the cheapest unit I could find on eBay! One point perhaps to note is that the Cisco SPA112 does not have support for IPv6.

[#9]

@Batphone Good to know. Thanks for the helpful post.

[#10]

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@flanzm wrote:

Hi Becca,

Openreach are turning all PSTN landlines off nationally on 31/12/2025 (they use old technology, that is too expensive to upgrade for the relatively small number of people who want them).  To get ready for this all new PlusNet contracts won't have landline any more.  If you renew your contract it will be converted to what is known as SOGEA (basically broadband without a dial tone) and your phone number will be lost.

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A few days ago I renewed my contract for 2 years .  At the moment the landline still works. No mention of SOGEA or sending me a router that would allow connection to SOGEA.  Alas, no sign of FTTP coming soon.

[#11]

If you don't change products and simply renewed what you have then you can keep your landline, if you were to move products you would lose it.

[#12]

Thanks for confirming @dvorak - I will be doing that but just postpones the inevitable.

[#13]

BT have published the schedule for their roll out of Digital Voice and the switching off System X in their exchanges.

I have a Plusnet phone and broadband service in Wales where this will take place in Spring 2024.

Will Plusnet be suppying me with a new router that has a phone socket?

[#14]

@machare No - the PN brand of BT is an internet- only product - there is currently no intention of supplying a telephony product.

[#15]

I have a Plusnet phone and broadband service in Wales where this will take place in Spring 2024.

@machare dont confuse BT Retail changing THEIR customers from a landline to Digital voice with Openreach ending landline support. Openreach are not ending landline support until 2025.

If its this https://newsroom.bt.com/bt-announces-regional-rollout-schedule-for-digital-voice/ you've seen then it liberally uses BT as though its means Openreach , which it doesn't, it means BT Retail!

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[#16]

I have a Plusnet phone and broadband service in Wales where this will take place in Spring 2024.

@machare dont confuse BT Retail changing THEIR customers from a landline to Digital voice with Openreach ending landline support. Openreach are not ending landline support until 2025.

If its this https://newsroom.bt.com/bt-announces-regional-rollout-schedule-for-digital-voice/ you've seen then it liberally uses BT as though its means Openreach , which it doesn't, it means BT Retail!