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Phasing out home phones

JSHarris
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Registered: ‎06-08-2023

Re: Phasing out home phones

From what I've read, the sole reason for switching off the PSTN is cost.  The kit isn't really obsolete, nor is it non-maintainable, it's fundamentally a question of Open reach getting less and less revenue from the PSTN (because the customer base for copper-wire based systems is dwindling) and the PSTN closure giving Openreach the potential to both cut operating costs by a hefty amount and gain a bit of revenue from the sale of many, now unused, exchanges. 

Our nearest exchange is a good example.  It's a medium sized bungalow shaped building sat on a fairly good, centre of village location, with houses either side.  As a building plot it's probably worth the thick end of £200k.  Multiply that by however many similar rural exchanges there are (probably more then a hundred at a guess) and their sale will make a tidy sum for Openreach (or ultimately BT Group, as it seems that BT "rob" funds from Openreach at any and every chance).

I've no doubt at all that the PSTN could be kept going for several more years, but sooner or later is will have to go.  OR want this to be sooner (as it's costing them money to keep it going) and some customers want it to be later (because they will lose the means to make emergency calls for a few years).  There needs to be a balance between what's in the best interests of Openreach and what's in the best interests of customers.

From all I've read, Openreach seem to have Ofcom, and the government, over a barrel, so it's their needs that seem to be the highest priority, not those of domestic customers.  We've been here before, when Openreach decided that letting the Chinese government have access to our comms was OK if they got Chinese kit at a low price.  That debacle doesn't seem to have had any impact on the way Openreach behave, as basically they got away with it, in cost terms, despite the hot air from Cameron at the time.

greygit1
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Re: Phasing out home phones

I typed that with a tongue lightly inserted into the cheek. Not everyone will see it in that light, but some will.

I see you refer to Huawei, BT later...

The ONT in my current abode is a Huawei manufactured/supplied device. It is not a small box. It appears to be the largest of the ONTs that BT have deployed. Reading through literature it appears the original came with backup batteries that would keep a charge to cover an interruption to the electricity supply to it (from some unknown length of time). A BT (3rd-party contracted) engineer opened up the outer casing to reseat the box, and consequently exposed a smaller box inside which was accompanied with fresh air. The backup battery stuff was absent/stripped out. That explains why half the lights on the ONT never turned green or red, and never will.

 

(I don't open up 'stuff' that I really shouldn't be touching, but I will definitely have a visual nose-ache when given the opportunity.)

MisterW
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Reading through literature it appears the original came with backup batteries that would keep a charge to cover an interruption to the electricity supply to it (from some unknown length of time). A BT (3rd-party contracted) engineer opened up the outer casing to reseat the box, and consequently exposed a smaller box inside which was accompanied with fresh air. The backup battery stuff was absent/stripped out. 

With the original deployment of FTTP, Openreach offered a phone service FVA (Fibre Voice Access). I believe the original Huawei ONT had a phone port and so any voice service only required the ONT to be powered. Hence the built-in battery backup as a means of providing an emergency phone facilitity. Openreach FVA was dropped in preference to BT Digital voice, which of course required the router to be powered as well. Hence there was no point in battery backup of the ONT and so, atthough the Huawei ONT was still being used for installs,  the battery pack was not supplied.

The later ONT's like the Nokia have no facility for integral battery backuo, 'no cause for it gov'

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

RobPN
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@greygit1 

 

IDK what variant it is, but here's an image of my elderly ONT (installed 2015) for the record. (Please excuse the image quality as the ONT is situated in an awkward position in a poorly lit corner behind a pile of stuff so I had to reach at arms length with my phone and didn't use flash)

It's somewhat larger than today's versions!

The BBU was supplied but never fitted as I told the BT technician at the time not to bother after he advised that FVA wouldn't be possible.

As can be seen, it's a 4-port with 2 telephone ports, and the connection point for the BBU can be seen towards the upper right side.

 

ONT_20231214_094233.jpg

HPsauce
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Following on the power cut theme, I have just received a Utility bill with a prominent advisory at the top: "Power cut? call 105"

How will that work when every means of making such a call has limited or no backup so will also be out of service?

 

As it happens, while many more urban exchanges around or near us either have or are planned for FTTP, we are "at the bottom of the heap" with Openreach showing "We don't have any major plans to build in this exchange".

(I'm still on wet-string ADSL which works fine at over 20mbps despite being about 1km to the exchange along the cable route)

Mr_Paul
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@HPsauce 

"I'm still on wet-string ADSL which works fine at over 20mbps despite being about 1km to the exchange along the cable route"

In that case you won't have a problem with your cabinet losing power, because your line is copper all the way back to the telephone exchange.

You will need to provide yourself with a means of powering your router though - perhaps a small UPS, (Uninterruptible Power Supply) just for the Hub.

MisterW
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Re: Phasing out home phones

How will that work when every means of making such a call has limited or no backup so will also be out of service?

It won't of course! but in true 'not my problem gov' , the energy companies responsibility is to make sure they have sufficient facilities and backup power to accept the call to 105. That they have almost certainly done, being unable to make the call to them is not their problem!

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

JSHarris
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Registered: ‎06-08-2023

Re: Phasing out home phones

@HPsauce 

 

Precisely!

We often call 105, just to try and plan around however long the power is going to be out.  We have backup power that keeps key things going when the grid fails, but this isn't endless and so we call to find out whether we need to start rationing the back up power or not.  We can go for around a couple of days if we restrict power usage to just the lights and the well pump, switching to a camping stove for cooking, tea etc, but without rationing power the backup supply only runs the house for around 12 hours or so.

Rationing power when we don't need to is an inconvenience, but not rationing power when we're in for a long power outage is an even bigger nuisance.  For us, 105 is a pretty essential service, and if we have to get in the car and drive a mile or two to somewhere we can get a phone signal to use it that's going to be a PITA, especially if the reason for the power outage is bad weather.

idxPN
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Re: Phasing out home phones


we have found that our FTTC cabinet fails about 30 minutes into a power cut, as that's as long as its battery lasts.  We can't get a mobile signal, so if we needed to call for help, or call the emergency services, then we'd not be able to.

 

The issues raised in this thread also worry me.

 

I remember the power cuts of the 1970's. There was a published rota of disconnections to ensure fairness and cuts were of 3 hours duration. I read somewhere that contingency plans prepared for last winter (when there was considerable anxiety about generating capacity) also allowed for 3 hour cuts. So a 30 minute backup would be quite inadequate.

 

Mobile phones, even if unaffected by the power cut, are not necessarily an answer. I live in a city in an area that, according to my mobile network, has good coverage 'indoors and outdoors'. A relative lives in a large village with the same good predicted coverage. And yet in both locations I am plagued with connections where the call is dropped, or suffers momentary drop outs or, frequently, one side of the conversation is missing. I had began to think my mobile phone must be at fault but recently I started to carry a second phone and have confirmed that there are network issues.

 

So it is not just in remote rural locations that mobile phones face reliability issues.

 

I have a medical condition which may require me to call an ambulance at short notice to avoid potentially fatal consequences. I am sure I am not alone.

JSHarris
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@idxPN 

You last sentence has hit home rather hard with me today.  I'm normally fit and active, but I very suddenly felt very faint and fell down early this morning.  My wife's away visiting family at the moment and for a minute or two I thought I'd not be able to get to the phone.  Thankfully it turned out to be a known side effect of an over the counter medicine, but it very much focussed my mind on how I could call for assistance if it had been something serious.  Right now I have one of our DECT handsets in my pocket, and am in the process of looking around to see if there are any newer models that are more compact and have a long battery life, so I can get into the habit of carrying one around when I'm on my own.

Mr_Paul
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@JSHarris 

"Right now I have one of our DECT handsets in my pocket, and am in the process of looking around to see if there are any newer models that are more compact and have a long battery life, so I can get into the habit of carrying one around when I'm on my own."

Battery life isn't something normally found in the specs for DECT phones - at least not reliable information that I would rely on in your situation.

Have you considered finding a small DECT handset that you like, then seeing if they come as a set with two handsets, so that you can carry one around with you while the other one is charging?

 

 

JSHarris
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Thanks @Mr_Paul , I've discovered much the same when searching online for replacements for our fairly old Panasonic DECT units.  One thing I found out today was that the Panasonic KX-TG806 units we have, that are at least 7 or 8 years old, seems to be able to run all day when out of their cradle.  I've popped the one I was carrying back in to charge now, but it was still working after about 7 hours.  I've been meaning to replace these anyway, as our last DECT phones gave up the ghost after about 6 or 7 years, so I'd assume that a new set should last at least as long as these.

klyne
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Re: Phasing out home phones


@JSHarris wrote:

Thanks @Mr_Paul , I've discovered much the same when searching online for replacements for our fairly old Panasonic DECT units.  One thing I found out today was that the Panasonic KX-TG806 units we have, that are at least 7 or 8 years old, seems to be able to run all day when out of their cradle.  I've popped the one I was carrying back in to charge now, but it was still working after about 7 hours.  I've been meaning to replace these anyway, as our last DECT phones gave up the ghost after about 6 or 7 years, so I'd assume that a new set should last at least as long as these.


We have recently purchased a set of three Panasonic KX-TGE823 phones. We sometimes go away for weeks at a time and there is always charge left in the phones where the power is turned off, only the base phone and the one in the lounge is left charging, the one in my office is not charged and still able to be used. 

David

JSHarris
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Re: Phasing out home phones

From the BBC News:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67750235

 

"UK phone companies have paused making vulnerable customers switch to digital landlines following "serious incidents" where telecare devices stopped working.

Nearly two million people are thought to use such equipment, which can be used to summon help in an emergency.

Digital landlines can fail in some circumstances, such as a power cut.

Phone providers have signed up to a charter under which people can only be moved from an analogue to a digital line if there is no impact on telecare.

The UK is in the process of switching to digital landlines - a process which mostly involves equipment at exchanges, rather than in people's homes, being changed.

Telecoms companies and Ofcom, the industry watchdog, have published information on what the changeover will mean but it has been met with concern by some reliant on their analogue landline.

After becoming aware of recent serious incidents in which telecare devices failed, Technology Secretary Michelle Donelan met with telecoms firms, including Sky, BT, Virgin Media O2 and TalkTalk.

The companies have agreed a new charter in which they commit not to switch customers to a digital network unless they are confident they can be protected."

IMM
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@JSHarris 


@JSHarris wrote:

From the BBC News:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67750235

 

The companies have agreed a new charter in which they commit not to switch customers to a digital network unless they are confident they can be protected."


I also read that - I hope I'm wrong but it sounds much more like political virtue signing than a real commitment to ensure that there is a robust communication system in place that will still function for prolonged periods during a power cut. (like the one that I've known my whole life!)