cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

carlh93
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 6
Registered: ‎17-01-2023

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

That's the gross price per kWh for electriciity on my SVT tariff. (It seems that I am not allowed by Plusnet to name the company!)

The net price, including EPG discount and VAT is just over half that. But the price I quoted is the price that I would be paying on my most recent bill (from 01/01/2023 to 31/01/2023) if there were no government subsidy.

I have excluded the standing charge, which is a flat daily rate payable irrespective of consumption. I have also excluded the last but one payment of £66/£67 from the EBSS scheme, which terminates on 31/03/2023, and is a credit against each of six final monthly total bill amounts, so cannot be apportioned per fuel on a dual-fuel contract such as mine.

carlh93
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 6
Registered: ‎17-01-2023

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

FOR SPECIFICALLY "DAN-THE-VAN"

NON-ISP ROUTER

I'm probably looking ahead without good reason as yet. My area is "not yet" scheduled by Openreach for full fibre" build". The adjacent area to the west, the western end of which is close to Sheffield, is in blue (build in progress).

My present contract with Plusnet has 13 months to run, so I may be able to move to an ISP who supplies as standard a router more to my taste than the Plusnet Hub2 well before a visit from Openreach looms large.

But, as regards ISPs, the "devil you know" may not be bettered by one which happens to supply an apparently more suitable router, but is no better than Plusnet, or even not as good, in other respects - and may be a lot dearer, mainly because of supposedly top-class customer service

So I have looked at the Archer 400 routers.

There is no "contact us" for T--LINK on their website, so I can't put questions to them. They are a not a retailer.

Retailers such as those on Amazon are likely to be little better than "box shifters", I suspect.

So may I bother you again?

As you said, these routers have a wi-fi On/Off button, but I wonder what you think in other respects of the spec of this particular one

"With multiple inputs, the Archer VR400 provides you with a variety of options when connecting to the Internet. As a backup, the EWAN port allows the Archer VR400 to accept connections from cable and fiber modems via Ethernet cable. Additionally, the USB port supports 3G/4G dongle connections."

with respect to other considerations such as:-

- Why is the type of connection which is needed if Plusnet supplies top-speed full fibre broadband at my address classed as "backup"?

- No VOIP phone port, so, presumably, you could not use a BT VOIP phone with it?  Or if you can, how?

- Only three LAN ports available once the special(?) one to the right in the photo of the back of the unit is in use to connect to a modem (the Openreach ONT). That's enough only for one VOIP phone (if this can use a LAN port); plus 2 PCs. Sounds rather limited.

- Suitability for the speed which Plusnet tells me I would get now if my connection were full fibre? And its suitability generally for connection via Plusnet?

Dan_the_Van
Hero
Posts: 3,035
Thanks: 1,467
Fixes: 90
Registered: ‎25-06-2007

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

Hi,

The vr400 which I used to use works as a xDSL modem/router, 3g/4g LTE modem/router or as a router.

It has four LAN ports, LAN4 becomes a WAN port when it is configured at a router, this is the configuration required for Full Fibre. Other models may have a separate WAN port

I stopped using it due to an issue I started to get with a ring camara not detecting the wireless signal so I now use the Hub Two.

The backup if used would be a 4g USB modem plugged into the VR400, there appears to be failover setting.

The Hub Two is a rebadged BT Smart Hub Two which will support BT Digital Phone. However currently plusnet are not offering VOIP so the phone socket is not used.

I will admit I have not investigated VOIP as I would probably not use it in favour of a mobile phone, all my current landline phone is only used for is incoming scam calls.

For VOIP you would need a ATA phone adapter, it requires a LAN port.

Some routers performance may restrict data through put so in some cases you may not achieve the paid for speed, I can't find this data for a VR400.

HTH

 

 

jwsg
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 183
Thanks: 40
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎16-08-2013

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

I've found a good combination to be the Hub 2 as modem and DHCP server and a Netgear Wireless Access Point for WiFi and wired connections. The Netgear allows split SSIDs and WiFi 6 and its QoS allows 4K streaming even with a full speed download running elsewhere. Still using the ISP provided modem might be useful when support is needed for any faults. 

The connection between Hub 2 and AP can be over power-line as it's for Internet only as all home devices connect via the AP - and when full fibre arrives the Netgear can be switched to be a router connecting to the ONT.

There's a few watts reduction in turning off the unused radios in the Hub 2 - made possible in the latest firmware - but turning off the modem or all WiFi doesn't seem sensible. The cost of a 24/7 Internet connection seems reasonable for something so important - it's easy to forget how many devices rely on WiFi like doorbells, hubs for light-bulbs, smart speakers, internet radios etc. 

Dan_the_Van
Hero
Posts: 3,035
Thanks: 1,467
Fixes: 90
Registered: ‎25-06-2007

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

 @jwsg 

Hub 2 as modem and DHCP server

Turning off the Hub Two's wireless and keeping DHCP enabled does not make the Hub Two work as a modem.

For a Hub Two to be a modem it would be configured to be in Bridged Mode which on your case would be recommended.

I wouldn't use powerline adapters between a ONT or modem and a router as there maybe some lost bandwidth between the two.

Dan

 

MisterW
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 16,136
Thanks: 6,136
Fixes: 442
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

I wouldn't use powerline adapters between a ONT or modem and a router as there maybe some lost bandwidth between the two.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday with an Openreach engineer trying to sort out a neighbours Full fibre installation that Talktalk had messed up. She was saying that it's not an uncommon problem where people are reporting low speeds and its discovered there are powerline units (particularly older ones) in place. They might 'claim' to be 500Mb capable but in reality rarely get anywhere near it , in fact some only have 100Mb ports so cant possibly get above that.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

carlh93
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 6
Registered: ‎17-01-2023

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

REPY SPECIFICALLY TO "DAN-THE-VAN"

CHOICE OF ROUTER

I take "xDSL" to mean "formerly for a DSL line". Is that right? Presumably the Hub2 is also versatile in this respect? (Plusnet sent me one after I had cancelled the contract which needed it, and I reverted, pro tem, to my old contract. The Hub2 is now on its way back to them in its unopened .original packaging).

I note your comment about the VR400 and your Ring (brand, not to wear on finger?) camera, and the fact that you have returned to your Hub2.

Wasn't the VR400 still under warranty when it started misbehaving? Would an ISP just change an "own brand" router if that failed, whether during or beyond whatever is a normal warranty period for such devices?

Despite what seem to be its limitations, I now feel inclined to settle for a Hub2 (or whatever Plusnet is purveying when I decide to go for FFTC, or am obliged to because I have had FFTP installed. That's if I decide to stay with Plusnet after March 2024).

I might even not grumble about having to make the "wearisome" six clicks" through the menus to turn the wi-fi off, say overnight!  But, in any case - see below.

I also note your last comment. Is the Hub2 Ok in this respect? I guess that it is, being the ISP's own brand!

 

VOIP

What you have told me is very interesting and instructive. Even these days, knowledge is SOMETIMES, though decreasingly frequently, power!

1. You can use the VOIP port on a router only if the ISP "supports" this. Is Plusnet unusual in not doing so?

2. If the ISP provides the support, if you use an ATA adaptor, how likely is it that you will be able to use a DECT phone (of which we have two)?

3. But, if the wi-fi from the router works well (which I presume it should in a house of reasonable floor area per storey, and height), your comment about the use made now of your landline phone (aka non-use) underlines why these phones are a threatened species, even if one has the type which can find a new life due to VOIP.

And you make clear the rational grounds on which you decided against VOIP (obviously not just because you didn't want to change ISP!).

If we want to run a router, we have to pay the normally BT-type line rental, but you have sensibly decided against the substantial monthly cost of a "calling plan", which applies only so long as one has, at most, FTTC, and which is good value only if you make quite a lot of calls. Why bother when your much more versatile, and fully portable, mobiles, give you as good a service for voice calls as "traditional" or VOIP phones?

I foresee that we will creep into the new age with a router if we get good wi-fi. That is, change our old "simple" mobile phones, which, though increasingly hampered by that Cinderella the 2G signal, are excellent for voice and texts, but are completely silent as regards data.

I don't know how calls are charged when using a VOIP phone, but I imagine that it will be dearer than using a mobile via even one's own wi-fi?

So, once we have the router, for which is not vital to wait also for FFTP (as you have implied), we may well buy one, or even two, mobile "smart"  phones.

End of yet another "story of my life". More might become tiresome!

 

 

jwsg
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 183
Thanks: 40
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎16-08-2013

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

@Dan_the_Van The Hub 2 contains a modem to interface to the line just like other vDSL ISP supplied devices - the AP can be used as a router but lacks a modem. The Hub doesnt become a modem in bridged mode - a modem is one of its components or functions. Siting the AP away from the Hub allows the Hub to be kept close to the master socket while the AP can be best located in the house for the WiFi or wired connections. My powerline with 100-300Mb/s room to room is fine for FTTC - but not for anything faster so sorry if you assumed I hadn't understood a wired connection would become necessary after changing the AP to router mode with an ONT. Perhaps people forget to measure the performance of their home network - be it powerline or WiFi mesh or whatever - to determine whether it will bottleneck their particular Internet connection. 

MisterW
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 16,136
Thanks: 6,136
Fixes: 442
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

The Hub doesnt become a modem in bridged mode - a modem is one of its components or functions.

effectively it does! All of its other functions such as routing and wifi are disabled in bridge mode

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Dan_the_Van
Hero
Posts: 3,035
Thanks: 1,467
Fixes: 90
Registered: ‎25-06-2007

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?


@carlh93

What were you planning to upgrade from/to Unlimited Broadband to Unlimited Fibre Broadband or Unlimited Fibre Broadband to Full Fibre?

xDSL - the x is a wild card for A or V (ADSL or VDSL)

I had the VR400 V3 since it was released early 2020, the ring camera did work but it stopped in later months of 2022. I didn't investigate if it was covered by any warranty. I might choose another router at some point using the Hub Two in bridge/modem mode as I Full Fibre is not currently available to me.

At some point in time (TBA by Openreach) all copper circuits will go, so everyone will be Full Fibre?

Overall I'd would say the Hub Two is fine for the average user and will provide the expected speeds for Full Fibre rpoducts.

If your are technical to any degree you may wish to use a 3rd party device for the extra features it has, that choice here subject to how much you want to spend and your needs.

The ATA are designed to take a standard wired or cordless phone, the VOIP provider can be anyone of your choice. A ISP would be foolish to block you from using your choice of VOIP provider.

A couple of my friends are with BT, they have been moved to digital voice, so they no longer use the copper element of their phone line back to the exchange. (hope that makes sense)

From what I see most changes are done by stealth these days and we as individuals have no real choice but made to think we have!

Hope I've answered everything!?

Dan

 

 

 

Spandon
Hooked
Posts: 8
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎16-03-2017

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

The last time I had line issue in late 2020 Openreach engineer turned up and and after hooking up his test equipment said " do you turn the Router off every night"? "Yes said I, as I don't want extraneous radiation emitting albeit low-level (whatever that is, try finding the safe level, particularly for 5G) or using power when not needed and that horrible blue light" Aha said he, I can see that and showed me the usage/service status graph form the exchange equipment...

The service was then around 32mg to a fibre cabinet then overhead via low quality cable (aluminium not copper) to the house to a Router One..

He then said the exchange equipment interprets the setting to off as a line drop and reduces bandwidth as it goes into fault analysing mode for 10 days until it thinks the line has stabilised...

Well, as ex-BT, I know that the old ADSL kit used to do this, so I was surprised to hear that the latest (at that time) fibre kit still used the same outdated logic...

When after he came back from the cab? to say he had found a fault there I mentioned that prior to that current fault I had had good speeds and great service (line noise etc) for over a year, so there was no evidence to support the idea that fibre kit sees the consumer turning off the router as a fault, he just said you'll get better service if you leave it on....?!

It would be good to get a definitive statement from BT/Fibre engineering/exchange staff? to clarify what exactly the reality of that question is.

carlh93
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 6
Registered: ‎17-01-2023

Re: Alternative to Plusnet HUB 2 router?

The cost of running a Hub2 router 24/7 is certainly reasonable if it multitasks, as you describe

 

But we don't need the wi-fi function of the router (not yet!: My wife is fiercely opposed to having a smart mobile phone, and I, who also have this kind of mobile, use it very little indeed).

 

We don't have any of the devices or systems that you list which depend on home wi-fi. We don't consider that our lifestyle is impoverished without them. The main problem is our doorbel./ This is an electromechanical chime, so needs the push held down for at least two seconds for at least a couple of (loud) ding-dongs (it runs on 20V AC from a transformer on a circuit supplied by our 230 V consumer unit). Delivery men and so on who attempt to visit us have become very "light touch" in recent years, so just give the button a gentle "dab". That does not move the hammer of the gong far or fast enough to make more then a faint ding - or there is no sound at all.

 

I've overcome this with a notice asking legitimate callers to hold the push down for at least 2-3 seconds. That works a treat!.

 

But I'm not a Luddite, and I do recognise that a wireless camera/doorbell would be useful - so we would cease having to go into the porch to assess visually an attempting caller (who can then see us, as our outer front door is clear security-glazed).. But you can get these with their own built-in wi-fi, can't you - not needing a broadband router?

 

 

carlh93
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 6
Registered: ‎17-01-2023

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

Thanks, Spandon, for your very useful and interesting reply. Sounds as if you have the router in your bedroom, where the "discreet" blue light would certainly seem bright and unwelcome - and possibly a heath hazard if one accepts medical advice to ensure NO AMBIENT LIGHTING if one wants maximum deep quiet sleep, so as to benefit maximally one's immune system!

OUR CURRENT ROUTER

I settled in the end for Plusnet's Hub 2. It had become clear, as the failed attempt by the Openreach guy had unwittingly demonstrated, that re-setting my line for the Hub 0) (ADSL) router, was not feasible - or at least likely to be problematical, and probably long-winded.

The new router works fine. I check the speeds regularly. Download is around 60 Meg. That 's despite over 0.5 mile between us and the relevant fibre-supplied cabinet, and despite the unpromisingly long line in from the "old but nice" GPO-type junction box where the line-in terminates (in our porch, since 1999) and the ADSL master socket. To reach the latter as the first socket on the line-in, the latter has to come bakc out of the porch and run up the front of the house into the loft.  Halfway across the loft there is another old-model junction box, and then a further section of the line-in extension to my office. This room is upstairs at the back of the house, well out of line with the point where the line-in extension enters the loft.

Despite all this extra copper, and screw terminal connections (except at the ADSL socket), the download speed is consistently (dare I say!) around 60 Meg, with upload around 8.

We see little operational difference compared with our old Hub 0 connection. That's no doubt because most of our downloading and uploading involves only small files. Fortunately, the extra cost of the new contract is only about a Fiver per month more than the old one (that difference will obviously widen after 01/04/2023).

W don't, or don't yet, have at least one smart mobile phone. My wife is fiercely opposed to these intrusive, and personally risky, devices, and her opposition is based on points made by rare informed and objective organs of the UK press.

We don't have any other broadband wi-fi-dependent devices in our very well equipped, comfortable and easy-to-run house, so we don't need home wi-fi. So the router wi-fi is always off - done by the inconvenient and mildly long-winded procedure which I commented on earlier in this thread. This is a far cry (backwards) from the simple on/off button on the Hub 0 router!

TURNING THE ROUTER ON ONLY WHEN IT IS NEEDED (IN PRACTICE, FOR ONLY OUR CABLE-CONNECTED DESKTOP PC)

After all the warnings, and the threat of a 2-week drop in connection speed, which you were also given in the advice which you received from your Openreach man in 2020, I decided to try switching the router off overnight (merely to reduce consumption of that gold dust called mains electricity. No need, AFAIK, to cut electromagnetic radiation because w-fi function currently off).

When this made no difference to the speeds, which seem to be towards the top end for a mixed-technology line, I got bolder. I started switching off after my work in the morning, and switching on again later if needed. On one occasion there was only 10-minute gap between a switch-of and a switch-back-on -due to realising that Dumb-Egg's Off had been premature!

I hastened anxiously to the speed tester at each switch-on. I've now calmed down on this, because there has been no change in the line speeds.

I do agree with you that we need up-to-date, reasoned and correctly informed advice on this.

What is the point of trying to frighten customers into increasing their electricity consumption, and usually (though not in our case at present), their exposure to the clamed "low-level" radiation of wi-fi  (particularly if a 5g wi-fi connection is normally used, so the router searches for this)?

You imply that these warnings (though we didn't then have 5G!) date back to our old Hub 0 ADSL router, so also probably to the flat "Technicolour" one that preceded it. I do recall something along those lines. Despite their much lower power consumption (compared with HUB 1 and 2), we used to keep both those routers Off except when needed. I tested speeds occasionally. They were always at the same modest figures, well within the limits promised by Plusnet.

That experience inclined me to be sceptical about the same warnings with the more modern technology.

As you say, one would expect this to be smarter in a respect such as that, not bogged down in the same old mumbo-jumbo.

What about 100% fibre? According, I think,  to "Dan the Van" (a very helpful and well-informed earlier contributor to this thread), those warnings certainly apply there.

I do support your call for a "from the horse's mouth" statement. No more faffing about, please Plusnet/Openreach, just tell us the TRUTH!

MisterW
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 16,136
Thanks: 6,136
Fixes: 442
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

As you say, one would expect this to be smarter in a respect such as that, not bogged down in the same old mumbo-jumbo.

I do support your call for a "from the horse's mouth" statement. No more faffing about, please Plusnet/Openreach, just tell us the TRUTH!

There is still a Dynamic Line Management (DLM) function for FTTC connections. Only Openreach really know how that works, however there's a good independent explanation here https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm

What about 100% fibre?

Whilst we have seen similar erroneous warnings from support, there is NO DLM functionality for FTTP connections. There is also no 'training period' as there is on FTTC & ADSL connections. Basically FTTP either runs at the provisioned speed or not at all!

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

jab1
Legend
Posts: 18,914
Thanks: 6,198
Fixes: 286
Registered: ‎24-02-2012

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO PLUSNET HUB 2 ROUTER?

@carlh93 A few observations on your last post.

(1) If the light bothers you - mask it.

(2) If a 'smart' phone is so risky, and the vast majority of people have them, why are there very few peer-reviewed warnings - I accept there are plenty of 'fear-mongering' ones on alternative media, but on the odd occasion I have come across them, they have little scientifically proven fact.

(3) One point which has not been mentioned is the extra stress on Hub components caused by constant off/on operation - this will cause premature equipment failure. 

John