Charging Plusnet for unfixed faults

[#1]

Right now - if a BT 'engineer' calls and finds the fault is with our kit there's a potential for a £65 charge - which I fully appreciate and understand.

However, the reverse should also be true. If an 'engineer' or troup of 'engineers' call and a fault is not fixed then we should be compensated for the same amount for each vist. Moreover this should not be the end result of some long, "customer is always wrong/at fault etc" process, but as automatic and simple as the one by which we would be charged if applicable.

[#2]

That is an ideal way of dealing with things and would serve to ensure a better quality of service from BT/OR so we know that will never happen!

[#3]

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@bin wrote:

Right now - if a BT 'engineer' calls and finds the fault is with our kit there's a potential for a £65 charge - which I fully appreciate and understand.

However, the reverse should also be true. If an 'engineer' or troup of 'engineers' call and a fault is not fixed then we should be compensated for the same amount for each vist. Moreover this should not be the end result of some long, "customer is always wrong/at fault etc" process, but as automatic and simple as the one by which we would be charged if applicable.

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i'm not sure i see the logic in your suggestion.
if you want your fault fixed then you need to make yourself available, why should you be compensated just because it can't be fixed on a first visit?

an openreach engineer doesn't know the situation until he/she visits.

[#4]

...and after 4 visits - and an acknowledgement that there is a fault 'somewhere' but as it still works - sort of - they won't investigate further.

If they come on site first time and find it cannot be fixed because of a,b or dependency then it goes without saying that it is an ongoing issue.

What I'm talking about is folks being continually told that if the fault is with them then they have to pay - but when the fault is with BT and they cannot be bothered to fix it then it's just tough mate! That is customer service 21st Century style.

BTand PN hold all the cards - you pay the thick end of £200 a year for a line that sounds like there's a river running through it, BB speeds that drop and drop and drop - so called and engineers come and go all promising to either 'fix it at the exchange, or move you to a new pair - which works for all of a couple of days - anything to get rid and move on.

Well, to coin a phrase - the boot should be on the other foot - or at least be equally shod. If time and again PN do not get the fault fixed by BT then it should be chargeable - then maybe, just maybe it would incentivise them to actually fix faults instead of wasting time on never ending streams of appointments, failed fixes etc - all of which WE ARE PAYING FOR!!!!

edit... this fault affects everyone in our road - 11 or 12 users - not just me. BT know this because they're the ones who told me.

[#5]

Sorry to hear your fault is still ongoing.

I appreciate the inconvenience caused by engineer visits. Just to clarify, the fee we pass on to our customers is a fraction of the charge we receive from our suppliers should the fault not lie with the wholesale network.

I'll respond to your ticket shortly.

[#6]

Things may change when (if?) this OFCOM proposal gets implemented.

[#7]

depends what they class as "quickly enough"
"their landline or broadband is not fixed quickly enough after it has stopped working".
even at 2 full working days which is being suggested, they have certain things that are exempt as MBORC.

this one will just result in not giving a "promised" date
"their new landline or broadband service is not up and running on the day promised"

engineers will just say they did visit and the onus will be put on you to prove otherwise
"an engineer doesn’t arrive for an appointment as scheduled"

all the three proposal as so to easy to work around.

and if they are enforced it'll just result in customer bills going up to pay for it.

[#8]

You really are a doubting Thomas @chenks76     It may not be perfect, but it IS a proposal.  I suppose an alternative is to do nothing and wait for someone else to do it. 

Perhaps you'd like to draft an alternative for Ofcom to review?

M

[#9]

why should i come up wtih an alternative?

my comments are quite valid
anything that results in the ISP having to pay out will mean that the customer pays for it via billing.
if you think it won't then you are deluded.

and if a company is threatened with fines if they don't keep to a specified promise date then they simply won't get a promised date.

and the MBORC has always been the catch-all for things that can't (or won't) be fixed within a certain time period.

[#10]

Just checked up on your fault report @bin following the engineer visit, it looks like your speed's back up now?

[#11]

Clear evidence that miracles do still happen!

Engineer no. 5 arrived - no knowledge of previous 4 visits or anything else.

OK it was 30C and no-one wants to be prodding cabinets in blazing sun at those temps.

Did various tests - there are 2 cables from exchange to cab - one slower than t'other.  I'm on the faster of the 2 already.

Lines in balance - everything fine here govn'r - the line will support the 6 - 8.5 speed range so if you're not getting it then PlusNet must be holding back  - bye!

An hour or so later connection is all over the place, SNRM up and down like a yo-yo, ES/Hour all over the place.

3.15pm connection goes down - comes back and all is back to normal(ish).

So, I didn't do anything.

Engineer didn't do anything.

.....is there anything you want to tell me?

[#12]

or... the engineer was telling fibs, and once he left the cabinet went the the exchange and fixed the problem.

[#13]

@bin

... Or may be we are looking at something which is not a line fault such as REIN or SHINE issues, which are very difficult to resolve.

You have not shared any details of your problem, just your (understandable) frustration of so many engineer visits and no resolution which is oh so typical of interference problems.  The only way to profile these issues is by detailed monitoring by the user.  Which router are you using?  Check out router stats (link below) and see if your router is supported.

Please also provide a description of your problem.  What happens and most importantly when.

Please post your router stats; for PN TG582n and 2704n routers use the buttons below, for other routers look at the Kitz link.

Also run a BT Wholesale speed test (ideally using an Ethernet wired PC with the WiFi turned off) then run the further diagnostics and post the results here. DO NOT REBOOT the router!

Also find your CURRENT SPEED (PlusNet line profile) from the PlusNet user portal - you will need to log in.

• TG582n Stats
• 2704n Stats
• Kitz list
• BTw Speedtest
• PN Profile

[#14]

Could be serendipity, but it could just be that whilst doing some other maintenance / upgrade at the exchange a poorly fitted cable / board on the MSAN got reseated? 

[#15]

 The only way to profile these issues is by detailed monitoring by the user.

I think that would have been a reasonable response when Fibre was an immature product and most of the people using it would have been tech savvy. Its now 2017 - the world expects people to have broadband to do just about anything.. People expect their broadband to just work, many of them are not tech savy and telling people that they should be leaving their PCs running routerstats is really not acceptable for a majority of internet users. If Fibre still needs that level of diagnostics to trouble shoot problems then either PN or BT should be doing it - why should it be the responsibility of the end user to provide information which most of the time PN or BT ignore

I've had an on going fault since January. Multiple BT engineer visits ( each one meaning I have to take a half day from work). Engineers ignoring what is on the ticket, engineers dismissing the previous engineers findings or work. Engineers wanting to know why a lift and shift hasn't been done (a previous engineer had put that in his notes but the next engineer said that he couldn't do it).....   

Each Engineer visit gets the usual disclaimer from PN about charging me if the fault is in my wiring / equipment... but at what point do I get compensation for a TV service that has been faulty for 6 months or get compensation for my time? Or is wasting customers time deemed totally acceptable by PN and BT?