Constructive posting

[#1]

Quote from: jelv

. . . and it is inevitable that several people will post to refute the assertion (usually a pretty brief "Squawk: Mine's great")  . . .

I see no reason why it should be inevitable at all (my bold). That sort of response is totally unhelpful in every way. It gives the troubled poster no help in resolving their problem and as you (jelv) say, it almost certainly just winds them up further, which does not help the experienced and helpful poster or the staff to resolve the problem. It is this sort of response that you should be campaigning against even more than the rant format of the initial post.
If the troubled poster (I cannot say OP in this thread but you know what I mean) is calm and collected and asking for technical help, they would probably post in the "Help and Support" forums and I agree wholeheartedly that posts in those forums should not be in rant mode at all. In many ways, the feedback forum is set up to catch the rants and keep the other forums calm and logical. Banning rants everywhere will simply mean that they pop up at random everywhere which I am against.
Further, feedback is often not a request for the sort of help that the experienced and helpful users (there are too many to name) can provide. Quite often feedback is of the sort "Customer services have told me a pack of lies and really wound me up" and in these cases it is only Plusnet staff who can investigate, find out the truth and devise a suitable route out of the situation. Similarly, the posts such as "my fibre router has not been delivered in time" and "the engineer has not turned up for the 3rd time" are really a commentary on Plusnet's internal processes, something for them to consider and correct if necessary. (I know the engineers are from Openreach - it's still Plusnet's problem whether they can influence it or not). I occasionally reply to these sort of feedback threads but when I do, I am generally trying to emphasise my concern at Plusnet's failure and encourage Plusnet to address the cause of the problem and prevent future occurrences.  In those cases it helps immensely if I can understand the original post  so I do understand and  support the idea that posts should be in recognisable english.
So to round this up, in the Help and Support forums, I am totally in agreement with jelv's original post. In the feedback forum, I feel that we have to allow customers or potential customers  to express themselves in any way that they can manage. Any feedback however angry or badly phrased is better than no feedback because the customer gives up and  walks away. We need to give Chris and Matt and the other staff a chance to do their jobs and intercept the irate customer before they leave and try to keep them in the fold.

[#2]

Very eloquent (if that's the right word) Razer.
Better to ignore than inflame, better still if the poster can be calmed down with a bit of rationality.  I've seen posts over the years that have started as horrendous rants that have ended with profuse thanks (and/or apologoies) and the OP becoming a very happy customer and active forum member.
It is true, of course, true that the best way to get the best help is to ask politely, calmly and rationally and guiding posters (OPs and responders alike) in that direction can never be a bad thing.
This forum has always been pretty free from censorship (except for when things get out of hand or posts blatantly break forum rules), some sites summarily remove all posts with the least criticism of their organisation - I'd hate to see this one going that way.
Yes, lets encourage sensible posts and discourage troll-like posting but lets try to be understanding of those who feel aggrieved at the time of posting, perhaps suggesting that they edit excessively strong titles and comments once they're calmed down a bit.  If a poster 'disappears' after leaving a strongly worded post about their unreliable broadband, don't forget they may have become disconnected and unable to update!
This is still far and away the best support forum I've encountered, long may it continue.
[Edit - just spelling]

[#3]

Well I don't agree with the implications of your last paragraph EnglishMohican, you seem to be suggesting we should not comment in the Feedback forum and leave Plusnet to deal with it.
In quite a few cases a bit of sympathy and support from other users goes a long way into calming down a situation and getting to the bottom of the issue(s) which in some cases only Plusnet can address and in a few cases Plusnet need to be given the views of others about how something has been handled or done.
There are however a greater number of posts on Feedback these days where the user is needing technical help, sometimes where Plusnet has seemingly been unable to do so.
There are also an increasing number of posts that are clearly OTT in the way that the poster's anger has been expressed, and I'm sorry I do not agree that such OTT posts should go "unchallenged", however the way in which that is done has to depend on the individual post. I have on a number of occasions given a fairly "robust" response to some such posts and gone on to help the individual concerned and in most cases with a happy outcome.
I don't have time right at this moment to make the necessary more detailed comments and suggestions, but will try and do so later today.

[#4]

Quote from: Anotherone

.....  we should not comment in the Feedback forum and leave Plusnet to deal with it ....

@anotherone:  That is the second time in two days that you have read more into one of my posts than I ever intended (and more than I said in my view). Given that I spent over an hour carefully crafting my reply to be as reasonable, fair and as grammatical as I could possibly manage without the post becoming monstrously long, it perhaps goes to show that what the reader understands from reading something  may have more to do with their own views and prejudices than what was originally written! And that probably applies even more to "Plusnet is rubbish" rants than to my carefully crafted phraseology.
@everybody - not just anotherone : I am all for friendly, calming, helpful replies to any post. As commented further up the thread,  anotherone generally does a very good job of that sort of reply as he did in the rant thread that triggered this thread. Oldjim, jelv, w23 and others provide excellent, helpful replies frequently (I originally wrote "on occasions" but decided that would provide too much room for somebody to take it the wrong way and be offended!).
The people I am against are those who are determined to kick somebody when they are down; posters who reply with "My fibre works wonderfully" or "He must be a troll" when somebody says that customer services will not help them as happened on the thread (now edited) that triggered this thread. The first of those was irrelevant and the second was almost certainly totally wrong.
jelv's wish for calm, clear posts is fine but when the red mist mode descends on somebody either ignore them or answer helpfully. Do not kick them. It is hard enough to post when you are struggling without knowing you are going to be welcomed by a barrage of taunts.

[#5]

Sorry, you think I've read more into your post than you'd intended. I'll send you a PM.
Edit:  And it has nothing to do with my views and whatever prejudices you seem to thing I have!

[#6]

Quote from: w23

Very eloquent (if that's the right word) Razer.

Thank you kindly.

[#7]

Here's an excellent example of how to rant properly: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,114807
All the facts and clearly expressed - if only they were all like that!

[#8]

I do not realise I would be in the "Hall Of Fame"  so have been back and corrected most of my spelling mistakes, when ranting ones fingers tend to type quicker than ones brain can keep up with  
dick:quote

[#9]

...and here's a good one showing how to get support and empathy, when clearly PN had failed to deliver... http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,114800.0.html

[#10]

Wo wants sympathy or empathy? It should not even be a consideration, PN dropped the ball PN should sort it out whether you are 80 something with cancer or 30 something with 3 nagging kinds that all want to get their tablets back online!
Sympathy and empathy is something I do not want, I just want PN to do what they are supposed to do, end of!
dick:quote

[#11]

It reduces the red mist with the majority of posters

[#12]

Quote from: PembsPanther

Sympathy and empathy is something I do not want, I just want PN to do what they are supposed to do, end of! [Moderator's note by Dick (Strat):  Full quote of preceding post removed, as per Forum Rule]

If you want help from other users here, it is useful to have.  Emotive rants and raves can disincline one to be overly helpful.  Manners and courtsey cost nothing whilst they do bring rewards.

[#13]

Quote

I just want PN to do what they are supposed to do, end of!

This is the sort of statement which immediately elucidates a negative response from both PN staff & members of this forum. "Please" inserted anywhere in that statement will automatically change the polarisation of the response, which neatly brings us right back to the subject of this thought provoking thread.

[#14]

I disagree.
Regardless of the way in which a complaints/feedback is made we will handle appropriately.  Believe me, I see the two complete opposites of the scale.
I can appreciate comments from some members of this forum about the way that criticism is made.  However, at times some people may be exceptionally angry about something and at that point, the last thing that they may consider is whether or not viewers of the forum will be happy or not in the way that their criticisms are made.  To be honest, they problem don't really care! We will deal with any aspect of complaint, regardless of the language or tone in which it is delivered.
I very much side with Razor's views on this topic.  If my team start treating customers differently because of the manner in which their complaints are written then we really aren't much of a complaints team and I for one would be extremely disappointed if that were to happen.

[#15]

James, I'm very impressed. You obviously have a much thicker skin than I. You're also many, many years younger & therefore far less cynical!
Keep up the good work, PN is definitely the best isp.