Contacting you by email

[#1]

or get the Stationary office official copy http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2013/pdfs/uksi_20022013_en.pdf

[#2]

@Pierre I did find that one but you missed out the heading

Quote

General information to be provided by a person providing an information society service

so I wasn't sure it applied to Plusnet as they are not trading as a person
@mariek I found that one as well but that only says

Quote

These requirements include providing your end users with: the full contact details of your business details of any relevant trade organisations to which you belong details of any authorisation scheme relevant to your online business  your VAT number, if your online activities are subject to VAT clear indications of prices, if relevant, including any delivery or tax charges.

Nothing about email

[#3]

Quote

c)the details of the service provider, including his electronic mail address, which make it possible to contact him rapidly and communicate with him in a direct and effective manner;

Tickets meet that requirement.

[#4]

@oldjim - you've omitted the following, on page 8, as per my link
"You must ensure you provide end users with:
the full name of your business
your geographic address
contact details, including an e-mail address, to enable direct and rapid communication with you."
@jelv - how does sending a ticket meet the "including his email address" requirement?  It is a requirement to have an email address (not a ticket system) visible on the website. 
When an email is sent, there is a record of it, on a server and if is has been redirected, it can be traced.  It always leaves a footprint.  Details submitted in a ticketing system/contact form can be emailed to any old address, including a gmail address, which leaves plenty of places to hide.  The law is there to protect people buying online.  Obviously Plusnet aren't scamsters, but they are flouting ecommerce regulations that are there for a reason.

[#5]

You are correct - I missed that 
However it refers to end users - which I take as customers not non customers so perhaps the ticket system covers that.
Also - not quite in the same place but e-mail is a short cut for electronic mail which is defined by the Information Commissioner's Office as

Quote

The Regulations define electronic mail as ‘any text, voice, sound, or image message sent over a public electronic communications network which can be stored in the network or in the recipient’s terminal equipment until it is collected by the recipient and includes messages sent using a short message service’ (Regulation 2 ‘Interpretation’ applies).

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/privacy_and_electronic_communications/the_guide/electronic_mail.aspx

[#6]

No problem.  However, I think you're trying to play with words now!
Firstly, even if what you said was valid, I'm a customer and I don't have an email address to contact Plusnet on.  A ticket system is not an email address.
End users are everybody who is able to buy online or make an agreement online - be it for a service or product  Given that "signing up is a doddle", end users are entering contracts online and no email address in sight.  Every single person who visits the website is an end user of the website.  It's kind of interesting that on the page where they can switch, there is a "contact us" box.  It has a tel number and says "or get in touch online".  As a web designer, I would have turned "get in touch online" into a link either to the email addess, or to the contact page, where the email address is clearly visible.  The idea is, that you need to make a website as user friendly as possible.  Call me cynical, but as Plusnet haven't done this and therefore made it much harder to "get in touch online", they want people to either call, so that they can be sold to, or just go ahead and sign up, as "contacting us online" isn't exactly a one click option.

[#7]

Actually I am not trying to play with words.
I have looked at numerous websites once you raised this question and a significant number use ticketing or messaging systems which don't include an email address but an on line form.
So either they are all breaking the law or your narrow definition of email is wrong
But IANAL so I may well be talking  totally rubbish 

[#8]

Quote from: mariek

@jelv - how does sending a ticket meet the "including his email address" requirement?  It is a requirement to have an email address (not a ticket system) visible on the website.   When an email is sent, there is a record of it, on a server and if is has been redirected, it can be traced.  It always leaves a footprint.  Details submitted in a ticketing system/contact form can be emailed to any old address, including a gmail address, which leaves plenty of places to hide.  The law is there to protect people buying online.  Obviously Plusnet aren't scamsters, but they are flouting ecommerce regulations that are there for a reason.

Email logs are transient and are kept for a lot less time than tickets! If you mounted a legal challenge on the basis that Plusnet didn't adhere to your very, very limited definition of email but instead provided something far more secure and accountable you'd be laughed out of court (and probably have to pay Plusnet's costs!). In any case as Jim's quote from the ICO tickets meet the requirement without any fudging.
Edit: I bet the support PN provide via Tritter meets the requirement as well - the public address for contacting Plusnet via an electronic message is @Plusnet

[#9]

Jim didn't quote correctly.  He quoted regulations 22 and 23 which refer specifically to marketing.  His quote is what constitutes the contents of an email, not what constitutes an email address 
The regulations couldn't be simpler - it's plain English, nothing fancy.
"You must ensure you provide end users with:
the full name of your business
your geographic address
contact details, including an e-mail address, to enable direct and rapid communication with you."
 
Simples.  What's your definition of an email address, given that mine is so limited?

[#10]

http://www.bodlelaw.com/e-commerce/website-legal-requirements-contact-information

Quote

Contact Information The following contact information must be provided in an easily accessible position on your website:    an email address    telephone number    fax number (if you have one) Increasingly companies do not provide an email address and/or telephone number to avoid receiving unwanted spam emails and telephone calls. Instead many companies only allow customers to contact them by completing an online contact form. This may breach the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002. Can I use a Contact Form? The European Court of Justice has ruled that an electronic contact form complies with the E-commerce Directive, where the supplier answers queries sent by customers within a period of 30 to 60 minutes. However, if a customer requests a non-electronic means of communication from the supplier in the contact form i.e. a telephone number, the supplier must provide this.

With respect to the response time.
When you raise a ticket with Plusnet you receive an almost immediate response saying  

Quote

We have received your Question - Thank you! If you need to talk to us about this Question, please use the reference number [ removed ]. We will send you an email when our Support Team has responded to your question. If you need to add more information or inquire further about your open Question, you can return to it by going to the Help Assistant. Read or respond to your Question - http://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=questions IMPORTANT: Do not reply to this email, our Support Team can only deal with Questions through the Help Assistant Regards, Customer Support

[#11]

Don't believe everything a solicitor's website says!  Maybe he didn't read to the end, but below is the final court conclusion.
"On those grounds, the Court (Fourth Chamber) hereby rules:

1.      Article 5(1)(c) of Directive 2000/31/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 8 June 2000 on certain legal aspects of information society services, in particular electronic commerce, in the internal market (‘Directive on electronic commerce’) must be interpreted as meaning that a service provider is required to supply to recipients of the service, before the conclusion of a contract with them, in addition to its electronic mail address, other information which allows the service provider to be contacted rapidly and communicated with in a direct and effective manner. That information does not necessarily have to be a telephone number. That information may be in the form of an electronic enquiry template through which the recipients of the service can contact the service provider via the internet, to whom the service provider replies by electronic mail except in situations where a recipient of the service, who, after contacting the service provider electronically, finds himself without access to the electronic network, requests the latter to provide access to another, non-electronic, means of communication."

[#12]

That appears to have been added to although this seems to indicate that it is as well as an email address and may even be more restrictive
http://www.out-law.com/page-9545

Quote

UPDATED: Companies have to provide a means of contact on their websites in addition to their postal and email addresses, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) has ruled. A telephone number, or a contact form that is answered within 60 minutes, were deemed acceptable.30 Oct 2008

Quote

The ECJ has ruled that a web form filled in by a consumer and responded to by the company via email was acceptable in a case where the company answered queries within 30 to 60 minutes. It stopped short of suggesting that all companies should respond to web form queries within 60 minutes.

[#13]

Just checked with TalkTalk and what they call contact by email is a contact form http://help.talktalk.co.uk/app/ask

[#14]

I've contacted quite a few large organisations about the same thing, so no surprise about Talk Talk.  So far, none of them have come back with anything.  Most "have referred it to the legal department."
The quotes you gave are correct, but they also "in additional to an email address".  The form does not replace the requirement of an email address.
The solicitor on out-law says "Offering a web form and sending an automated response is unlikely to comply"

[#15]

I saw that - it makes the whole judgement silly as there is no timescale for a response to an email query
One sometimes wonders whether these European judges live in the real world