Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

[#1]

Quote from: Capvermell

Legally speaking you shouldn't touch the master socket wiring

Yes, I am aware of that, but I wasn't speaking 'legally' 

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How far are you from the Cabinet?

About 150m from cabinet and 1.72KM (straight line) to exchange.
I'll give PN a call and see how it goes.

[#2]

Quote from: dTemplar

I'll give PN a call and see how it goes.

As long as you insist on a visit and accept with the adviser you are speaking to that if the wiring fault is caused by your actions you will have to pay £99 then Plusnet staff will agree to arrange an engineer call out from BT Openreach.  However they have been rather over taught to go on and on about people being charged for a visit by BT as it doesn't seem to have been explained to the staff at Plusnet that work on the Master Socket by BT Openreach to install the filtered faceplate can mess up the extension wiring.  In fact they tell you that even if it is BT who has caused the extension problems it is still your problem, which is incorrect and wrong.   The second time I called BT in India I got a very nice and polite and intelligent BT worker (one of the very few out there in my experience) and he agreed completely that if the extensions were disconnected in the master socket during the fibre install then this was BT's problem and that only wiring disconnections beyond the master socket were down to the customer.
Unfortunately in order to make things KISS (Keep It Simple and Stupid) for Plusnet's staff training they have wrongly modified this to telling customers that anything at all wrong with the extension wiring is always the customer's responsibility.
BT Openreach themselves take a pretty reasonable approach as when they cut off the second line here (used for a burglar alarm) when installing fibre for a different customer in the same cabinet a month ago the engineer who came out said they would only ever charge for acts of complete customer stupidity like cutting through their own wiring and wouldn't even charge for a line brought down by a normal tree fall due to high  winds in a customer's own garden even though legally they were entitled to.    If a customer had brought down their wiring by chopping down a perfectly healthy tree then that would probably be a different matter and they would charge.

[#3]

Hi dTemplar,
Your best bet would definitely be to do as Capvermell suggests - if you need to have an extension plugged in for your phones to ring then there's definitely a wiring issue somewhere. If it still doesn't ring with a phone plugged into the master socket on its own (or in the test socket, if this is possible - though if it is please test from both as the master socket front plate is still BTs responsibility) then you've proved it's a fault with the line and we'd need to raise that for you.
Best way to do that would probably be to call in to be honest and let the guys know what's happening and what the results of the tests are, they'll then get that sorted for you.

[#4]

Quote from: Matt

If it still doesn't ring with a phone plugged into the master socket on its own (or in the test socket, if this is possible - though if it is please test from both as the master socket front plate is still BTs responsibility) then you've proved it's a fault with the line and we'd need to raise that for you.

Thanks to both Capvermell and Matt for the replies. 
When I plug a phone into the BT master socket it rings if called.
When I plug same phone into any extension it does not ring when called.
When I plug into extension via microfilter it rings if called.

[#5]

I have now reported fault by phone to Plusnet support and am awaiting confirmation of BTO engineer visit.

[#6]

Quote from: Capvermell

How far are you from the Cabinet?  I am about 350m to 400m away from my nearest Cabinet here but about a 3.5km run away from the telephone exchange itself (previous speed with Be Unlimited ADSL2+ was just 3Mbps sync rate and download speeds no better than 2.5Mbps so the increase from copper to fibre is about 23x!)

Was with Be like yourself.  I was about the same distance away if not a little further and I comfortably managed a stable 7Mbs with them on ADSL2+.  I am smowehere between 280 and 350m from my cabinet and get 72/73Mbs down and 17.2Mbps up on unlimited fibre.  I mention this simply because all things being equal I think your copper may be a bit tired so getting BT to look at the master socket to the pole may be a good idea.

[#7]

Quote from: pengbo

Was with Be like yourself.  I was about the same distance away if not a little further and I comfortably managed a stable 7Mbs with them on ADSL2+.  I am smowehere between 280 and 350m from my cabinet and get 72/73Mbs down and 17.2Mbps up on unlimited fibre.  I mention this simply because all things being equal I think your copper may be a bit tired so getting BT to look at the master socket to the pole may be a good idea.

I think its a bit luck of the draw really as whilst I'm not doing as well as you a lot of people here are getting substantially less than BT's estimated fibre speeds rather than over 50% more Downstream and over 100% more Upstream.   The only thing I can try to get BT to change are the 2 metres of wire from the overhead wire down the wall to the socket (probably 30 years old) and the overhead wire from the terminal block on the house to the telegraph pole in the main road (no more than 30 metres).  The other 400m down the main road and the junctions with the 18 or so houses on the way are not really under my control at all.   BT seems to also take the wire across the road to run along on the other side at the cabinet and another spur also goes off up the residential side road the cabinet is at the main road junction with.
If your wire comes to your house from the cabinet on only one side of the road and the cabinet doesn't also have a junction with another residential side road almost immediately at the cabinet then inevitably your speed will not be as diluted.  The house next to the cabinet has a full 80Mbs estimated speed on the BT Broadband checker site.  I agree my BE Unlimited speeds were disappointing but the wiring run up to the exchange could have been a lot longer than just the 3.4km along the two main roads as it could have been meandering around various other places on the way including a small sub village area.  Be Unlimited always assured me that the slow speed was down to the BT wiring path and could in their opinion not be improved.  I tried tinkering with the attenuation etc on the Thomson 780 Speedtouch router etc but all it did was increase the sync rate but make it more unstable so there was no greater level of throughput on a Speedtest.

[#8]

I reported the the issue of no ring tone at my phones unless I used a microfilter to Plusnet and very promptly they arranged for a BTO engineer to visit my home this morning.
The engineer arrived here at 08:25 and quickly checked my extensions then did something to the master socket and my bell ring came back.
He has since tried doing his tests which appear to have shown some other fault and so he went to the BT cabinet to try to resolve the issue and is currently working in the local exchange with his test equipment still connected to my master socket.
They said he would be here between 8-1 - I didn't take it literally. 

[#9]

BTO engineer returned from exchange and has corrected fault and reconnected me.
Everything now appears to be running as it should.

[#10]

Quote from: dTemplar

Everything now appears to be running as it should.

Good to hear its all fixed dtemplar and that the BT call out time was less than the ridiculous 10 days we have been offered here (I have requested compensation as this is over the maximum 3 working days they are allowed) for the engineer's visit.
Also out of interest have your connection speeds improved any further following the engineer's visit?

[#11]

Quote from: Capvermell

Also out of interest have your connection speeds improved any further following the engineer's visit?

@Capvermell  Hi, I was very impressed with the speed at which PN achieved a site visit although having now had four home visits by BTO I am hoping not to see them again for a very long time. 
Speeds appear to be about the same although I the latency looked  a bit improved on a speedtest I did after todays visit; time will tell I guess.
Thanks for all your advise and support mate.
john

[#12]

Hi there,
I'm glad things have picked up for you dTemplar, make sure you give us a shout if you have any other issues.
Adam

[#13]

Just to report that BT did send out another engineer to sort out the two extensions with no ring tone following the original installation of a filtered faceplate and FTTC connection at the near by cabinet.
I was rather worried as the phone line actually transferred from BT to Plusnet the day before the second engineer's visit was due and as the engineer due to visit had been called out by BT whilst my relative was still a BT phone line customer and so I had visions that the transfer of phone supplier would automatically cancel the visit booked for 10 days after making the appointment with BT.
However I checked with BT on the morning of the visit by calling BT faults 0800 800 151 (151 no longer worked and had a message to call our own telecoms supplier instead due to the change of phone line supplier to Plusnet and after initially saying we weren't customers any more so they couldn't talk to us they then checked the records on the closed account and said a visit was still due for that morning.
Sure enough at 11.30pm or so a BT van did arrive and this time it was a proper long serving BT engineer and not a contractor on behalf of Openreach.  I think the 10 day wait was until a proper BT engineer was free as BT obviously don't seem to trust their contractors to put right a bodge created by a previous inadequately trained temporary contractor.  In any event the BT guy did not make any claims that the faulty extensions was not BT's responsibility as it was clear the bell tone had been cut off by work done by BT in the master socket and that they had been ringing fine up to that moment.
So in any event if you have extensions cut off completely or bell tone disconnected as a result of work by BT installing a filtered faceplate during an FTTC upgrade make sure to stick to your guns and demand that BT does send  out an engineer to put right their own mess up.  You may find this slightly harder work if the phone service has already moved to Plusnet at the point you spot that BT Openreach has caused a problem with your phone extensions and their ringtones or connectivity.  If you can't make the front line advisers at Plusnet accept that this is a matter for BT to resolve then send an email to the Plusnet CEO using the address listed at www.ceoemail.com

[#14]

Thanks for your feedback and sorry to hear about the issues you've had Capvermell.

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send an email to the Plusnet CEO

For anyone else reading I will stress that it would make more sense to contact support in the first instance

[#15]

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_

For anyone else reading I will stress that it would make more sense to contact support in the first instance

And for anyone reading this I will stress that my suggestion to contact the Plusnet CEO is only intended to cover circumstances where you have a new FTTC install including fitting a filtered master socket faceplate and the installation of this faceplate leaves one or more of your previously fully working wired extensions in a non working condition and Plusnet denies that it is their responsibility to book a BT Openreach engineer to come back and fix the problem.  The non working condition could be either no dial tone and/or no bell tone at that extension when your line rings.  Previously all of these extensions have been working without any issue before BT fitted a filtered faceplate on the Master Socket.
If you then contact Plusnet support as you should and they then deny that any faults on extensions are ever a matter for Plusnet to fix period (which is what they consistently and wrongly do in the case of the new fitting of a filtered master socket that is botched by a BT sub-contractor thereby cutting off extensions) then if your phone line is still with BT try contacting BT customer support and see if they will send out an engineer to fix what is a fault on the phone line bit one caused during an FTTC broadband install.   If BT won't help or your phone line has already moved to Plusnet and you have contacted Plusnet support who have sent you away with a flea in your ear suggesting it is not their problem then it is only in this circumstance I suggest contacting the Plusnet CEO, who is currently Jamie Ford.
Your issue won't in any case be handled by Jamie personally but will get passed across by his secretary to the highest possible level of support where it might have a greater chance of being successfully addressed than appears to be the case with a typical Plusnet frontline tech support telephone adviser in relation to this particular issue (extensions that no longer work fully after a BT Openreach engineer or BT Openreach subcontractor has visited your home and installed a new filtered faceplate for an FTTC broadband upgrade from copper only broadband).
If Plusnet better trains its front line advisers to envisage the possibility that a BT Openreach engineer fitting a new filtered master faceplate may damage the extension connections in the master socket than presently seems to be the case then hopefully one day ,my recommendation to escalate the issue to the Plusnet CEO to achieve resolution may no longer be necessary.
Although the fact that the website www.ceoemail.com actually exists at all rather points to the fact that many customer services and technical support sections in the typical large UK company are not always as efficient or effective in resolving long running customer problems as they perhaps might ideally be.