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Leaving Plusnet

bendipa
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎06-04-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

It makes me wonder when I read about all the problems home users always seem to encounter with wi-fi.  . It seems that people would rather put up with all the headaches that arise from that rather than use the relatively trouble free ethernet. I wouldn't use wi-fi at home if you paid me.
PeterLoftus
Pro
Posts: 2,599
Thanks: 182
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎27-05-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

my problem is with computer savvy kids living in and visiting I play the role of system manager. I have to provide the service they require which is normally wifi eneabled laptops, also smartphones and IPods  Roll_eyes
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
PeterLoftus
Pro
Posts: 2,599
Thanks: 182
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎27-05-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

One of my brood just decided to reboot my router in the middle of its retraining because he couldn't make a connection with his laptop  Roll_eyes
I wish I knew more about router problems because the nuclear option is often used by me and he must have seen me do it  Grin
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
mssystems
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 290
Thanks: 45
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎10-08-2007

Re: Leaving Plusnet

Quote from: steveben2004
I note your comments but having had virtually no problems with the router supplied by my previous ISP for a peiod of 4 years, I would have thought that I should expect the same from this router.

With respect, you can think what you like but you need some knowledge of RF principles to have a hope of being correct about it.  I have a little over 20 years professional experience with transmission systems, by the way. 
There is a small chance that you have been unlucky and PN have supplied you with two broken routers.  There is a much greater chance that the routers are fine and it is your expectation that is at fault.  The argument you are proposing is somewhat analogous to claiming a particular car is not fit for purpose because the fuel consumption or top speed might vary slightly between examples of similar cars.  The fault is expecting all similar cars too perform exactly the same way in all conditions.  Patently, in all things, some variation is to be expected.
Quote
There is nothing in any documentation that I have seen that tells me to wrap the router in tin foil plastic or whatever.

CAUTION Never wrap a wireless router, or any other radio transmitter, in tin foil.  You may damage the device irreparably and there is a risk of the device catching fire.
In view of your having confused a simple and safe instruction with an inadvisable and possibly dangerous configuration... I don't think I need to explain further why such tweaks are omitted from the manuals.
The radio in your router does not read the manual but never the less behaves according to Physical laws; note they are 'laws.'  Those laws state that radio waves will reflect from a metallic surface, adding to the signal strength in the opposite direction.  It is the same principle that causes the the metal reflector on the back of an electric fire to intensify the heat in front the fire.  Radio waves and radiated heat both being examples of electro magnetic energy at different wave lengths within the same spectrum.  Placing a metallic surface behind a router's antenna is safe, as the RF energy can still radiate away.  Wrapping a router in tin-foil is similar to placing a metal plate directly in front an electric fire and is similarly ill-advised.
Quote
So, from my perspective, the router supplied is sub-standard insofar as the whole idea behind a wireless rooter is tha you can connect to the outer, from pretty well anywhere within a standard 3 bed semi.

From your perspective.  You have a device which is most likely operating within the manufacturers specification.  You are trying to argue that the device is not fit for purpose because you do not understand what the specifications means.
Where, in the documentation, did you read that, the whole idea behind a wireless router revolves around a 3 bed semi,  then?  No one with RF expertise is going to guarantee that a single Wi-Fi access point will entirely cover the inside space of a 3 bed family home and no manufacturer provides such a guarantee.
Wi-Fi was invented by NCR/AT&T, as a method of connecting cash registers and EPOS systems, within large open plan retail spaces, to corporate Ethernet networks.  In 1991, when Wi-Fi was launched, a cheap 10mbps hub cost ~£500.  Outside of corporate budgets Wi-Fi was, pie-in-the-sky, prohibitively expensive.  Three bed semis were never a feature of the Wi-Fi design spec.  Mass adoption of the Internet, Ethernet and eventually Wi-Fi, by the domestic market took another 15 years.
Back with the laws of Physics, 100mw @ 2.4 GHz (a wireless router) is not enough power, at too high a frequency, to guarantee penetration through walls and ceilings laced with electrical cables.  Add the EMI from games consoles, computers and a multitude of other wireless devices using the unlicensed 2.4Ghz ISM band.  It turns out that the typical 3 bed family semi is actually quite a challenging environment for a Wi-Fi installation.  You might get coverage from a single access point but it's always going to be a marginal situation.  Reliability being subject to transient environmental conditions and the design and manufacturing variations across specific devices.
So I return to where I started.  I have some experience in the field and believe you are expecting too much from the technology at the price you are paying.  It is your choice to apply the technology and your choice to buy the devices you buy.  Manufacturers and suppliers are not responsible for your own faulty assumptions.
Separate access points located centrally on each floor would almost certainly provide you with greater satisfaction from the technology.  Good luck with whatever kit you try next.  Hopefully I have been informative, if not agreeable.
And Please DO NOT wrap your router in tin-foil.
steveben2004
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎27-07-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

Don't you just love being lectured to
AlaricAdair
Champion
Posts: 5,658
Thanks: 647
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎21-03-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

I remember a couple of network equipment salesmen trying to sell me WiFi equipment around 1992 at my office in the City of London. We didn't get to talking about the price because they had a bit of a problem with their demonstration rig they'd brought along with them. Their base station was just along the corridor. It worked ok if my office door was open, but closing the door cut off the signal. It was only a cheap plywood office interior door and the walls of my office were plasterboard.
After a nice steak meal in the local restaurant I gave them the news they were expecting; come back when you've got it working properly.

Wifi has improved a bit since then.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
mssystems
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 290
Thanks: 45
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎10-08-2007

Re: Leaving Plusnet

I prefer being lectured to, to being blissfully ignorant, or being afraid of too many words appearing on one page.  Ignorance is, after all, a choice rather than an affliction.  You can choose to scroll if it's all too much for you.
Honestly though, a dozen paragraphs is hardly a lecture. 
steveben2004
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎27-07-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

If you dont have anything constructive to say Mssytems, I would suggest that you say nothing.
Fifty odd years of life have taught me that 
steveben2004
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎27-07-2011

Re: Leaving Plusnet

Credit where credit is due.
PlusNet have agreed to waive the £40 charge if i return the router to them.
adamwalker
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 16,926
Thanks: 863
Fixes: 223
Registered: ‎27-04-2007

Re: Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004,
I'm glad this is sorted let me know if you need any more assistance from a support point of view.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team