Plusnet Fibre Packages 2Mb/s v 10 Mb/s Upload - Vote
@cja, I've taken your feedback on board after reading your contribution to other threads on this board, and I'll ensure it's relayed to the appropriate people within the business.
Must admit, I'm interested in what it is you're wanting to do that would benefit so significantly from the increased upload speed? I frequently work from home, often upload moderately sized files via FTP/HTTP and remotely access and stream music from my home machine when at work (amongst other things). Having my upload limited to 832kbps certainly doesn't hinder me all that much?
There's a few things it's worth bringing to this debate...
Firstly is the question of coverage. I haven't the figures to hand but FTTC still has quite sparse coverage. Even at enabled exchanges, there's only a percentage of cabinets that support provision of the service. Whilst it's just a matter of time and the situation won't always be like this, it's worth considering that there's a significant proportion of our customer base whom the question of upload doesn't even apply to (I can't even get ADSL2+ and it's not as if I'm out in the sticks either).
Secondly is the question of demand. Did you know that when we provision a customer on ADSL2+, we cap the upload at 448kbps (rather than the 1Mbps or so that's attainable in cases)? Yes, there is a process for requesting this is uncapped but how many people request this? Well I can tell you it's relatively few.
Third question is that of cost. The wholesale rental cost is more expensive if you want to provide a 10Mbps upstream service. There's also a pretty significant cost associated with regrading a line between the 2Mbps and 10Mbps variants. It might seem simple for us to offer 2Mbps on Value and 10Mbps on Extra for example, but what happens if a customer transfers between packages as it would cost us just shy of a tenner each time this happens.
We welcome feedback, and I appreciate what you're saying, but at the very best all you would see for launch is a manual/case-by-case type affair that would allow for increased upload (and I can't guarantee that at this stage either).
Not sure how long it's going to be available for, but those on enabled exchanges/cabinets can probably still hop onto the trial if they're quick and take advantage of the 10Mbps upload rate
Must admit, I'm interested in what it is you're wanting to do that would benefit so significantly from the increased upload speed? I frequently work from home, often upload moderately sized files via FTP/HTTP and remotely access and stream music from my home machine when at work (amongst other things). Having my upload limited to 832kbps certainly doesn't hinder me all that much?
There's a few things it's worth bringing to this debate...
Firstly is the question of coverage. I haven't the figures to hand but FTTC still has quite sparse coverage. Even at enabled exchanges, there's only a percentage of cabinets that support provision of the service. Whilst it's just a matter of time and the situation won't always be like this, it's worth considering that there's a significant proportion of our customer base whom the question of upload doesn't even apply to (I can't even get ADSL2+ and it's not as if I'm out in the sticks either).
Secondly is the question of demand. Did you know that when we provision a customer on ADSL2+, we cap the upload at 448kbps (rather than the 1Mbps or so that's attainable in cases)? Yes, there is a process for requesting this is uncapped but how many people request this? Well I can tell you it's relatively few.
Third question is that of cost. The wholesale rental cost is more expensive if you want to provide a 10Mbps upstream service. There's also a pretty significant cost associated with regrading a line between the 2Mbps and 10Mbps variants. It might seem simple for us to offer 2Mbps on Value and 10Mbps on Extra for example, but what happens if a customer transfers between packages as it would cost us just shy of a tenner each time this happens.
We welcome feedback, and I appreciate what you're saying, but at the very best all you would see for launch is a manual/case-by-case type affair that would allow for increased upload (and I can't guarantee that at this stage either).
Not sure how long it's going to be available for, but those on enabled exchanges/cabinets can probably still hop onto the trial if they're quick and take advantage of the 10Mbps upload rate
@Bob "Must admit, I'm interested in what it is you're wanting to do that would benefit so significantly from the increased upload speed? I frequently work from home, often upload moderately sized files via FTP/HTTP and
remotely access and stream music from my home machine when at work (amongst other things). Having my upload limited to 832kbps certainly doesn't hinder me all that much?"
Sorry in the US on business so not able to follow as regularly at the moment.
My company allows us to backup our PC disk via. a product called IBM Tivoli Storage Manager. Typical incremental backup size is around 1-4GBs which at 10 Mb/s according to my calculation that is around 13 to 54 min, actually a bit worse as my FTTC prediction is 6 Mb/s (my cabinet is FTTC enabled already) (22 to 88) mins, with 2 Mb/s that is 1hr - 4hr. 1hr isn't so bad, 4hrs is... and you can't predict 1hr or 4hrs, so 2Mb/s doesn't work, an ADSL2 solution doesn't work because of the line (its 4Mb/s on ADSL and predicted 5Mb/s ADSL2), FTTC is the only option. I probably the backup once a week at work, but work at home once a month, so I'd probably need to do that quarterly. You can see why 448Kb/s is unworkable.
You suggested the trial, but I just don't have time this month (the phone socket and office are not well place, so some cabling to do) and I want a production service and my line has been FTTC ready for 5-6 months, so if I wanted to be on a pilot I would have done that before, I've deliberately waited for you to produce your fibre products, sorely disappointed with the outcome. So a we'll try our best isn't a guarantee and I won't commit to 18 months without 10 Mb/s, besides I note your comment on the cost regrading, which is why I want it upfront and no I won't be asking for a regrade back to 2 Mb/s. If it costs £10 for that regrade charge people £10, I've no problem with that, which is another reason I won't start with 2 Mb/s, that seems silly for Plusnet and me.
Fibre Extra with 10 Mb/s, retaining my webspace plus (1 paid for £1 and 1 free domain), for £22.50 on Market 3 exchange, is the deal I want, if its not here by mid-May, in guaranteed form, then I'll start moving.
The few replies to the vote suggest more than half of us may want 10 Mb/s and half of those won't wait even a month, Extra needs to be 10 Mb/s. To not offer any 10 Mb/s product seems less than sensible, especially as the Openreach cost for 10 Mb/s rather than 2 Mb/s is minimal, according to the posters at Thinkbroadband.
Can you see if someone might like to reconsider. If you don't have my userid happy to provide in a help ticket, so someone can look at my usage and work out that I'm not a heavy ADSL user and therefore this is a good commercial and profitable option for you
Chris.
remotely access and stream music from my home machine when at work (amongst other things). Having my upload limited to 832kbps certainly doesn't hinder me all that much?"
Sorry in the US on business so not able to follow as regularly at the moment.
My company allows us to backup our PC disk via. a product called IBM Tivoli Storage Manager. Typical incremental backup size is around 1-4GBs which at 10 Mb/s according to my calculation that is around 13 to 54 min, actually a bit worse as my FTTC prediction is 6 Mb/s (my cabinet is FTTC enabled already) (22 to 88) mins, with 2 Mb/s that is 1hr - 4hr. 1hr isn't so bad, 4hrs is... and you can't predict 1hr or 4hrs, so 2Mb/s doesn't work, an ADSL2 solution doesn't work because of the line (its 4Mb/s on ADSL and predicted 5Mb/s ADSL2), FTTC is the only option. I probably the backup once a week at work, but work at home once a month, so I'd probably need to do that quarterly. You can see why 448Kb/s is unworkable.
You suggested the trial, but I just don't have time this month (the phone socket and office are not well place, so some cabling to do) and I want a production service and my line has been FTTC ready for 5-6 months, so if I wanted to be on a pilot I would have done that before, I've deliberately waited for you to produce your fibre products, sorely disappointed with the outcome. So a we'll try our best isn't a guarantee and I won't commit to 18 months without 10 Mb/s, besides I note your comment on the cost regrading, which is why I want it upfront and no I won't be asking for a regrade back to 2 Mb/s. If it costs £10 for that regrade charge people £10, I've no problem with that, which is another reason I won't start with 2 Mb/s, that seems silly for Plusnet and me.
Fibre Extra with 10 Mb/s, retaining my webspace plus (1 paid for £1 and 1 free domain), for £22.50 on Market 3 exchange, is the deal I want, if its not here by mid-May, in guaranteed form, then I'll start moving.
The few replies to the vote suggest more than half of us may want 10 Mb/s and half of those won't wait even a month, Extra needs to be 10 Mb/s. To not offer any 10 Mb/s product seems less than sensible, especially as the Openreach cost for 10 Mb/s rather than 2 Mb/s is minimal, according to the posters at Thinkbroadband.
Can you see if someone might like to reconsider. If you don't have my userid happy to provide in a help ticket, so someone can look at my usage and work out that I'm not a heavy ADSL user and therefore this is a good commercial and profitable option for you
Chris.
Quote from: Bob Secondly is the question of demand. Did you know that when we provision a customer on ADSL2+, we cap the upload at 448kbps (rather than the 1Mbps or so that's attainable in cases)? Yes, there is a process for requesting this is uncapped but how many people request this? Well I can tell you it's relatively few.
OK, the percentage of people who request their upload to be uncapped is low, but I bet the percentage of people who actually know that you can have their upload uncapped and then go on to request it is pretty high (I'd guess it could be well over 50%). Your argument that there does not appear to be the demand is flawed because of the lack of awareness.
A challenge: Put something about asking for the upload to be uncapped in the next Plusnet newsletter (along with warnings about possible small impact on download throughput) and see if the percentage stays low.
Quote from: Bob Not sure how long it's going to be available for, but those on enabled exchanges/cabinets can probably still hop onto the trial if they're quick and take advantage of the 10Mbps upload rate
I am currently seeing a date of 1/6/11 for FTTC, I don't supose this will still be around that long?
Just to add as I've mentioned in other threads, there will be those who can get fibre but will only get the very minimum of up / download speeds. These will probably average out at about 1.4Mb/s up and about 5.5Mb/s download - strangle that with traffic management and there are many folk who have far better ADSL connections!
Last time I looked into these sort of speeds, before fibre it was working out cheaper getting ones own pipe installed! Long term contract, you'll have to have the equipment, but it was working out at £16+vat / month! You won't have to charge yourself either!
Last time I looked into these sort of speeds, before fibre it was working out cheaper getting ones own pipe installed! Long term contract, you'll have to have the equipment, but it was working out at £16+vat / month! You won't have to charge yourself either!
Quote from: phil4
Quote from: Bob We welcome feedback, and I appreciate what you're saying, but at the very best all you would see for launch is a manual/case-by-case type affair that would allow for increased upload (and I can't guarantee that at this stage either).
Thanks for all your other points Bob, the trouble I have is that I need to make the right choice _now_, as the contract length is 18months.
See my reply in the thread here. If your cabinet is enabled this week then it would make sense that you request to be moved onto the trials before they close
@cja, thanks for the clarification.
I appreciate that there *is* demand for increased upload speeds, and whilst I'm sure it's something we'll cater for eventually, it won't be available to the masses at launch I'm afraid.