Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

[#1]

Some (or perhaps all, I'm not sure) members of staff do have moderating powers, but the idea is that all decisions go through the moderators so that PlusNet aren't seen as meddling with customers' freedom of speech etc. (bearing in mind that all of the moderators are just normal un-rewarded customers themselves).

[#2]

I think we all accept that in extreme circumstances Plusnet may have to step in. I don't think any of us would consider a post in what some people may consider the wrong forum meets that criteria!

[#3]

Well, when I said "I", I wasn't thinking I'd do it myself... And I didn't want to report it to a mod cause I wasn't sure if it was a good suggestion or not (it wasn't on reflection).
Point taken though - I've asked the admin guru to remove my own mod rights just in case I get carried away. 
I (we) believe as strongly today that the communtity should be running these forums as we (you) always have. I just hope the next mod recruitment exercise will result in some more willing volunteers, cause anything I reckon we would do is simply because those guys have been a little thin on the ground recently at times.
Ian
PS - I believe in transparency and directness. There is no need to beat around the bush in discussing these things - I'm unlikely to take offence, especially as I'm all too aware that my approach can be a little 'disruptive' at times.

[#4]

Don't worry Ian, I too have the errr quality of  being direct and voicing my opinion which isn't akways popular but I can't be doing with sheeple* anyway
*Sheeple are people that mindlessly follow others for the sake of fitting in, a bit like err sheep but with less wool 

[#5]

As I said in reply 3, this was the final instance that prompted my post.
If you look in Web Hosting (including PAYH), the first post on the majority of the subjects has something like "« Last Edit: Thu 16-10-2008, 18:36:59 by Ian Wild »".
I thought the rule of these forums was that if a post was modified in any way a moderators note was added to explain what was done - certainly all the modding by the official mods is annotated that way. It looks as if the change that was made was to add the platform to the topic title.
I can't recall any discussion/agreement by the members of this community as to whether this should be (a) adopted or (b) if so should it be retrospectively applied to all existing posts. Could someone point me to where it was discussed/agreed please.

[#6]

Another thought: Exactly how many Plusnet staff have moderator rights on these forums?

[#7]

i think this started it http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,69401.0.html

Quote from: Ian

Yep - good point on CCGI. Happy to run through this tomorrow on the last few threads if no one else has time. Ian

Quote from: xpcomputers

Ian, A great start. I see that all items that could be called [Preview] or [PAYH] have been called [PAYH] and not [Preview]. Not sure what I think about that, but since they are fundamentally the same platform, it's not a big issue.... however, the [Preview] platform feels a bit like PAYH lite to me. There are bound to be items discussed in these threads that won't work in the preview web space. Mail auto responders being one such case. Not sure what I'm trying to say really... other than observing what has been tagged so far, and wondering if anything is ever really going to be tagged as [Preview], or whether any [Preview] tagged post, would just get re-tagged as [PAYH] since if it works in a preview webspace, by definition, then it will also work in [PAYH] (being the super-set). But the reverse isn't true for [Preview].... only some of the posts tagged as [PAYH] will be relevant to preview webspace. I guess that people tagging their own threads will tag it with the product type they have (eg [PAYH] or [Preview]).

[#8]

ok, I've had a think about this and I'm now convinced that the whole thing has been blown out of all proportion. The ammendments to the posts that Ian did were all positive actions which were nothing but helpful.
The suggestion to move the thread I started was only that, a suggestion. And is it such a big deal if Ian had subsequently moved it with my agreement? Who else would feel the impact of such a simple action?
Rules are fine as long as they don't get in the way of common sense.
I would warn everyone to bear in mind that the contribution of Plusnet staff to these forums is an essential element of their success. If ANYONE is scared away from these forums by the fear of being criticised every time they take part then we are in danger of losing the whole point of these forums; a tool for mutually beneficial communication.

[#9]

I don't see the individual issues listed as being big problems (in and of themselves), although it is good to tackle them (with a thread like this) when they are still small problems anyway... that way they are nipped in the bud.
I can see where Ian was coming from on the Testimonials thread. If your understanding of the forum layout was to have positives on Testimonials, and negatives on Rants thread, then it would be totally reasonably question to ask if the thread could be moved. As it is, Ian has already agreed in that thread that he was wrong and the thread should stay where it is anyway. I think the important thing there was the discussion it provoked and the debate. Nothing was carried out, so it was a learning ground for the new forum structures of what goes where.
Regarding the tagging of the threads in Webhosting forum. I think that was fine (it was caused by my thread and I had agreed it would be a good trial to carry out), although for transparency, I agree Ian should have had a "edited to add a Tag to Thread title" comment added to the bottom of each one. Things like that can seem to be tedious, when editing so many threads at once, but a quick copy & paste would have only taken a few seconds longer per thread.
This thread will hopefully serve as a reminder why independent (from Plusnet) Moderation is seen as important by the community.
It gives the transparency & honesty sought by Plusnet.
That aim is worth fighting for, an occasional rap on the knuckles will help to keep the checks & balances in place, so that no boundaries are crossed!
I think the fact that we can have a thread like this and see Ian asking for his Admin powers to be removed to save accidents, says wonders about Plusnet. Most meglamanic companies would delete this thread and say "it's my business, we'll do as we please in our forums, like it or lump it".
It takes a brave company to buck that trend and defer moderation to a higher power of customers you have no control over.
Here's to more threads like this...
Mike

[#10]

This issue may or may not be overblown but there is a fundamental question which has not been clarified.
This is what are the duties and responsibilities of the moderators as opposed to the forum administrators.
On the one hand it could be said that it is the moderators responsibility is to only enforce the rules as defined

Quote

The role of the moderators is to ensure that the forums provide an enjoyable and informative experience for all. They also ensure that the Forum Guidelines and rules are followed. The moderators have the right to edit, censor, delete or otherwise modify any posted message.

If this is the extent of their duties and responsibilities it needs to be asked who are the Forum Administrators who are responsible for the forum layout/headings and divisions. It would appear from previous posts that this is carried out by PlusNet Staff Members and not by the Moderators.
If this assumption is correct then there should be no reason why the "Administrators" shouldn't take actions as long as such actions don't infringe on the duties of the Moderators. In other words they don't start censoring and deleting posts.

[#11]

The discussion on the naming of topics has attracted 13 votes (including the one I've just made to find out what the results were). Very few people took part in the discussion and on the basis of two or three people agreeing it was a good idea, a load of posts were changed (including one of mine which I've just changed back on principle).
That is not how things like this have been done in the past on these forums!
This is a community, proposals should be aired in one of the main forums, a defined period for voting on a specific proposal given, and then only acted upon if the majority agree.

[#12]

It's not the United Nations though.
The amendments made to the posts were just the addition of a label which doesn't change the post or the thread title, just clarifies it.
I can see that you're debating on a matter of principle but I think you should step back from the minute details and look at the big picture. Can't we all muck in together and stop worrying about the designation of duties and responsibilities?

[#13]

I think that xpcomputers has expressed my viewpoint quite adequately.  
Yup!  There was an issue, which has been aired and discussed.   At least with the Plusnet forums we all have the opportunity to take part and get things wrong occaisionaly if needed.  Many other Forums would have quickly expunged the thread and denied it ever happened.  
The past is not always a good model for the future, sometimes it needs to be challenged?
Can we move on now, there is little more to gain from continued nit picking.
Maurice

[#14]

Quote from: MauriceC

Can we move on now, there is little more to gain from continued nit picking.

I think you'll find that nit-picking is hyphenated.

[#15]

Can you tell me where to send the bill for getting the tea off my screen and out of my keyboard please.