Ticket No. 90067524 - what is going on?

[#1]

Thanks Adam. I was told by Peter B that there wasn't a fault ticket open, and that it was "just a series of questions back and forth".
If you find a recording of the call as you were looking to, you'll note that yourself.
Apologies, but it seems like the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. Thank you however for updating the ticket he creased afterwards as I see has been done.
I would also like to thank you for doing your best to get the faults team to reply.

[#2]

Quote

Thanks Adam. I was told by Peter B that there wasn't a fault ticket open, and that it was "just a series of questions back and forth".

Sorry Steevo!
That's certainly not how I would have put it to be very honest. I've got some more feedback to pass on it seems.

[#3]

Thank you for your reply Adam, I am very grateful for you taking the time to reply. Sometimes when you hear nothing you feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall so it is so refreshing to actually have someone to discuss issues with. I did try to call in to speak to "Faults" but was told they don't take calls and can only be contacted by opening a ticket. Slightly frustrating given I have an open ticket and they haven't seemed keen to reply to it.
I look forward to hearing further from faults very shortly.

[#4]

Well, I finally got my reply!
One quote out of it: " It would appear that the reason for the current connection and speed issues is due to general degradation of the copper phone line"
Seems BT Openreach are denying there is a specific problem, and are therefore unprepared to do anything about it. As a result, PlusNet are telling me they are unable to do anything further.
Trouble is, all through this nobody actually seems to listen to the specific symptoms of the problem that I am able to illustrate.
1. Upstream SNR Margin dips whenever the phone rings for an incoming call. Often this will cause the ADSL service to drop completely. SEE BELOW Nobody (not even BTOR or PN!) should be able to tell me that this is normal, or even acceptable service.

This cannot be considered acceptable service!
2. The FTR and MSR on my line are set at 6816 and 5452 respectively. A line test reveals the line to be 3860m. As such these are impossible figures. Furthermore, with line resets these figures DO NO change! Do BTOR and PN care? NO!
Surely if the line is degraded as suggested by the comments in the notes, the first logical port of call would be to replace it and ensure that they are able to provide the service being paid for. Clearly a broadband service that drops out multiple times a day (and errors every 1512 seconds!) if not fit for purpose.

[#5]

PlusNet's hands are somewhat tied by BTOR behaviours.  I had a recent experience (in respect of a referral) where the line was "degraded" but BTOR considered it to be within acceptable tolerances.
After a PN escalation BTOR did eventually attend - the engineer's view was that he was surprised that the speeds were as good as they were given the state of the BT line.
Have you eliminated any possible contribution from internal / extension wiring?

[#6]

Hi Townman,
Thanks for your reply, The master socket should be good as it was recently re-installed by the engineer visit. I've tried unplugging the telephone but this still makes no difference. There are no extensions in use at all. The only equipment connected is the router, and the small cable that attaches it to the data port of the microfiltered test socket. Having had 3 engineer visits, I'm 100% sure it's nothing to do with my wiring at all.
I've replied to the PN ticket. I've since decided to write to BTOR myself regarding this and have also approached the CIAS ombudsman. I'm not prepared to drop this matter until it is sorted, after all I pay my line rental and thus expect to receive the service in return for that.

[#7]

Hi Steevo,
Are things still much the same as described here - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,132176.msg1153838.html#msg1153838 ?
You / PlusNET need an angle to get BTOR off their bums to fix this.  Marginal lines are a real pain and BTOR have been known to try to doge fixing issues, especially if it is likely to cost them a bob or two.  From experience, PlusNET sometimes needs help (evidence) from the EU to bring pressure on BTOR.
If you would post your router stats I'll check the performance against expectations.
Is there any noise (especially intermittent) heard during phone calls?  If yes then this needs to be treated as a voice fault first.  Dial 17070 option 2 at different times.  See if there is a time pattern to the presence of noise.
I note that you reported a 3dB dip on an inbound call. Was that before the new master socket or after wards?  Could you obtain, set up and run router stats 24x7?  I think it would be worth while to rule out the presence of REIN.
Are you by chance on a long rural line?
PlusNET did a brilliant job of sorting out my very flakey business service (long rural line) it took 18 engineer visits over 6 months to get the speed from circa 2Mbps to 5.5Mbps over what most of the engineers admitted were "shot" wires / junction boxes which no one could get BT management to rectify / replace.
Kevin

[#8]

Thanks Townman. Yes things are exactly the same as in that post.
The only angle I am thinking so far is threatening to terminate the wayleave agreements for all the BTOR poles, lines etc. that run across our land service 14 other separate customers.
I've sent PN numerous pieces of evidence detailing the SNRM drops when calls are received. These cross reference to the Visual Radius data PN provided which shows around 3-4 drops per day. Is there any further evidence I can provide?
Please see router stats attached as requested.
No, there does not appear to be any noise present on the line at all. To all intents and purposes the line appears normal other than the SNRM/connection drops. The trouble is the knock on effects of this are higher SNR, lower speed, and the inability to retrain the line effectively and properly calculate the MSR/FTR values which are currently wildly inaccurate.
Correct about the inbound call dips. It can be anything from a 1db dip (i.e.15db down to 14db) to a 12db dip (15db down to 3db). This has not altered since the master socket change. I have been monitoring the line using DSLStats for almost two weeks now and this has happened throughout that period. DSLStats is still running now and is illustrating these dips still.
Yes, I am indeed. Estimated length in the region of 3.75km.
Ouch! Eighteen engineer visits is rather depressing - I thought three was bad enough!! Until mid august my line was happily supporting 1.8-2mbps. I thought that was acceptable and it was stable so I was happy. Since then something has happened, the line drops when calls are received, the SNR increased by nearly 15%, and as seen from the Visual Radius data I cannot maintain a consistent connection to the internet. Furthermore, my line speed has now dropped to 1.4mbps at max, more usually around 1mbps.
PlusNet have admitted to me that the line is degraded. I cannot understand where or why, but that is not my responsibility. My part of the contract is to pay my DD each month for the service, and in turn I expect PN/BTOR to keep their end of the bargain.
Thanks for your help Kevin! It really is welcoming to have somebody who listens to me about this and isn't taking 8 days to send me a reply back.

[#9]

Hi Steevo,
The real world problem is that BTOR has a real cross section of employees; though a very technical,profession, there are a number of "it will do" merchants and those who really want to fix things.  Amongst my 18 engineers I had a real mix of the lot, from an out of area engineer on a Saturday morning over time job who sat on his hands for two plus hours for a hoist to arrive to go up a pole which only days before had been accessed on a ladder.  That through to a sprightly young lady who worked up the top of that pole in pouring rain for over an hour trying to find the best pair out of a vey bad bunch.
That too was rural; the problem with the rural infrastructure is that the bulk of it was installed long before ADSL and much of it is aluminium.  BTOR clearly do not want to replace this and their stance is so long as it works for voice younger what you get in respect of broadband.  It takes persistence by any / all ISPs to shift that stance.  I fully understand the stance that one's contract is with PlusNET, but they have no power to force BTOR to do anything.
These 14 other users - do you know them?  Do they have broadband?  Are they facing similar issues?  Do they have noisy lines?  A cluster of fault reports (wink wink) might alert BTOR to a local hot spot of issues!
I read between the lines that the wires run over your land?  Are there tress near them which you might choose to prune to avoid them brushing on the wires... You may be able to BTOR to come out and work with you to do that... And repair any consequential breakages.
Is there any evidence of OH wires being stretched along the poles / excessively droopy?

As for being responsive, I can afford to pick out those threads which I think I can help on, or at least help the person in difficultly and I do not need to mind my Ps & Qs when talking about PlusNet's suppliers.  From experience, if PlusNET can find away around the BTOR stubbornness they will, but if BTOR / BTw say no, there is little they can do.  One final piece of experience to illustrate this I once had two really good boost engineers on the job for 3+ hours.  PlusNET said the wanted a lift and shift done, they said a lift and shift was required, BTw said no and no one could could a darned thing about it.
Sadly your profile of problem (long rural lines) is all too common and unless you've experienced it is hard to understand.  In the urban areas this stuff simply just works.  Hope that one way or another your lines are sorted soon.
Kevin