What an excellent business plan!!
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Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 3:42 PM
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I looked at the system messages but do not understand them. They are attached here. Any help appreciated, thanks.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 5:25 PM
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In my opinion, your high-frequency carriers are saturated with RF noise. In a perfect situation, (a short line with no noise) your graph would look like this
As the line length increases, the higher frequency tones become more susceptible to interference and you start seeing fewer "bits" being transferred per "tone". Your graph interestingly shows that the carrier bins 216-228 are capable of carrying 2 bits per tone, but bins 184-216 are incapable of carrying any signal.
I would certainly expect that those bins should carry increasing numbers of bits (moving left on the graph), so this is likely where your "missing" sync speed is.
Incidentally, this portion of the frequency corresponds to approximately 940-1069kHz in the AM band. It might be worthwhile grabbing a portable AM radio, tuning it to the centre of that frequency (1000kHz AM) and wandering around the house seeing if you get bursty 'static'.
Despite the "missing" sync speed, the rest of your stats look better when connected to the master socket. Error rate looks better, which is also likely to have caused your slow speeds (simplistically, every uncorrectable error that the modem comes across means that the modem requests that piece of data be re-transmitted).
B.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 5:31 PM
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Just read this all through again and there's a few things I've spotted that don't seem to have been covered yet.
Hi Sunny,
Just so that I haven't misunderstood anything with the "test" setup you are using, you have Router in the loft connected via filter to the test socket. Cat5 cable from router going to PC downstairs running RouterStats. Using laptop on wireless to browse, perhaps access this forum, run speed tests etc.
First, your last post and loss of wireless. The "system messages" log you attached doesn't appear to specifically address that, but OJ is the expert on RouterStats (I use DMT) so I expect he'll add his comments when he's available. It does seem to suggest the possibility of a power dip, I may be completely wrong. But it would still be useful to know, do you live in an area subject to occasional power dips/outages etc? In any event if it was only the wireless that appeared to dip, I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point, just keep a separate note of what happens, to address later. (Except the fact this may be another pointer to a router problem).
OK, now the rest. A few things to eliminate and check, I'll deal with in order - Phone, Phone Line, Bell Wire, Filter.
Phone - Do you still have a phone plugged into the filter whilst these tests are being done? Is it, it should be, a corded phone (it would be ok to be on an extension lead from the filter, but not the test socket side). Do you have a cordless phone, possibly an analogue but maybe DECT, is it still switched on?
When you use the phone now or in the recent past, have you heard any crackling or other intermittent noises on the line? If you have, confirm they are still present with a corded phone only - any cordless should be unplugged and switched off. If none until now, do a check when you see any noise spikes on your SNRM or Error graphs, and persist with checking until the problem is solved.
Apart from the need to eliminate cordless phones, your SNRM plot suggest some possible intermittency on your line (the 2 dips to zero just after 1435 & 1508 can be ignored as these are likely to be router polling issues especially if you see a comparable dip on the sync plot at the same instant).
OK, that's phone & phone line. Now bell wire - wiring. Your master socket - what type is it? If it has the OpenReach logo on the front, we can forget the rest. If it has just the BT/piper logo on it, then looking at the back of the front plate, arte there any orange (with white) and white(with orange) wires connected to terminals 3 &4. If so they need to be disconnected by gently pulling them vertically out of the IDC connectors, so you are only left with the Blue(with white) and White(with blue) wires connected to terminals 2&5. Neatly tuck them back out of the way so they don't come into contact with other items on the back of the front plate.
Now the filter plugged into the test socket. This may be faulty. What type is it? Please describe with any identifying marks. Is it the same filter as you normally use? Do you have another of know high quality. The bit per tone plot that you attached to post #90 shows a lot of attenuation of the higher frequencies, with significant missing tones above 182. This could be due to faulty filter, check by substitution, faulty router, check by substitution, or interference. In theory, your line should be able to sync between 5 1/2 & 6M. It is this limitation that is stopping that. Some basic filters (usually cheap) can cause this, which is why I mention "known high quality".
I know some points have been mentioned but it may be worth clarifying how ADSL works. Apart from congestion/contention, your throughput (your obvious concern from your OP) is controlled by your profile, which is controlled by your sync speed. This is dependant on the length of your line and the amount of noise on it. The length you can't change. Noise if picked up locally (more common) can hopefully be reduced, some measures have been mentioned.
If it's interference then we have to look at tracking it down.
It's also worth mentioning that whilst doing all these tests, it pointless doing routine BT speed checks (especially as you have to wait 3hrs between tests, and it can be iffy getting them started sometimes!). The data you need to look at is obtainable from your router stats. Once the sync speed is up, it make take 3-5 days for your profile to rise (exchange DLM software), so it is worth running an odd check after a day or two, & once the profile is up, running speed throughput tests.
Finally, a plea, please don't fully quote an immediately preceding post, it makes it difficult to follow a complex thread (apart from which it's against forum rules!). There are reply buttons at the top of the page and bottom of the posts.
Chris.
Edit: Barry beat me to the comments about interference, also add bit about BT tests.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 6:27 PM
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Just got in.
First - just a housekeeping point - please don't click on quote every time as I or somebody else has to go through all the posts correcting it.
Now down to the results you are getting.
As other have said the results are surprising to say the least.
Taking first Barry's point about the bits per tone graph. Your graph looks very similar to mine but mine (attached below) is with a much longer line and significantly greater attenuation. If you aren't aware of it dB is a logarithmic relation to signal strength so an increase in attenuation of 3DB results in the signal strength halving and your attenuation is about 43dB whereas mine is 51dB (8dB difference so an increase in signal strength of over 2.5 times compared to mine. This doesn't really help but shows how the noise on the line at the higher frequencies is killing your noise margin (shown by the bits per tone graph).
It would appear that the problem isn't with your wiring providing you did the tests without a phone connected.
One thing which I would ask (this seems an odd question) but do you have a masthead amplifier or a distribution amplifier for your television aerial located in the loft space. If you have can you try switching off the power to them and see if there is any change. The reason for this is that these items can include a mains to low DC voltage transformer rectifier and these have been known to create interference.
The log you quoted is I assume from RouterStats Messages tab and probably means you were fiddling with the router from 15:15 onwards or disconnected the cable from the computer. If you weren't then that indicates a problem although I have no idea what it is as the start up from 10:34 to 10:55 is normal.
Assuming that the above (no phone and amplifier, if you have one, switched off doesn't change the results you may as well move everything back to the normal socket unless you are happy to leave the router where it is for a few days.
You will then need to run Routerstats continuously and see if you get significant bursts of errors sufficient to kill your browsing speed. If these occur log the times and see if there is anything happening in your vicinity at that time,
Longer term, assuming things haven't sorted themselves, after logging the times when the problems come back you will need to raise a fault which will require BT to do full investigation looking for interference between your property and the exchange. As you can appreciate this is quite expensive and they will be reluctant to do it unless there are clear signs that the problem doesn't just affect you.
Would it be possible to speak to your neighbours who have broadband and get the data from their routers (attenuation, noise margin and speeds) to see if their connections exhibit similar problems.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 6:41 PM
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Quote from: Oldjim .................................It would appear that the problem isn't with your wiring providing you did the tests without a phone connected........................................
Sorry Jim, to be clear, any bell wires on terminal 3 and spare 4, will limit performance when he moves back to normal operation WHATEVER the primary cause of the current problem. It might be an idea to address the other things I mentioned asap as they are fairly easy to eliminate and could save a lot of going round in circles if one of them was the cause.
Chris.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 7:01 PM
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I do have a booster in the loft for the aerial outside without it cannot get a signal where I am located.
The master is the old type, ie not openreach and only has two wires connected.
The phone has been disconnected all day.
Since 5 pm I am getting no route to host error messages on system message router stats.
I have not touched the router since this morning as it is in the loft, what happened around 15.15 onwards was not down to me.
I will leave the router where it is for a day or so more to see what happens.
After taking time to read the replies and doing the suggestions I will report back, thanks again to everyone who has replied, I am grateful you are taking the time over this, I am sure you have more interesting things to do.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 7:08 PM
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http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug
@ Anotherone
With respect to the ring wire as the test was to the test socket I had assumed that wasn't relevant as most of them only have two wires coming in.
However the checks you list should certainly be carried out.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
11-02-2009 7:08 PM
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Quote from: Sunny After taking time to read the replies and doing the suggestions I will report back, thanks again to everyone who has replied, I am grateful you are taking the time over this, I am sure you have more interesting things to do.
Well yes, but this is what this forum is all about - helping each other with our shared experiences
You started with a rather sarcastic post about PN, and maybe all ISP's and BT Wholesale, like many before you - but I hope people have shown you that with ADSL Broadband - it is not always that easy
Hope we get your problem cracked as soon as possible.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 3:28 PM
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Plusnet are offering me BT engineer times but I do not want to be hit with any charges, and no doubt they will just test the speed at the master socket and say it is alright.
Thanks.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 3:38 PM
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If you open the log file does it show changes in sync speed and or noise margin at those times.
Can you also post the current summary from the telnet command and the messages log
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 3:56 PM
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I have no idea what is going on, the modem has been connected to the master socket since yesterday and I have not touched anything. One thing I have noticed though, if i leave the computer for a while when I come back I have to reconnect to the router. the wireless shows disconnected.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 4:17 PM
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First go to here http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?next_file=start.htm then click on basic settings and ensure that Idle Timeout is set to zero.
Next - and this is more complicated.
As your corrected errors are still high I suggest you try increasing the default noise margin to 9dB
To do this Click on Telnet Router then Set Target SNR which will give you something like this picture. If you set the numbers like the picture then click on Set Target Noise Margin (don't worry - this setting won't survive a router reboot)
Let us see in this reduces the corrected errors to a more acceptable level even though it wil reduce your sync speed
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 4:33 PM
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Router dropped the wireless connection again. Attached summary showing speed reduced.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 4:45 PM
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I am a bit concerned with the router losing the wireless connection. That shouldn't happen unless the wireless strength is very low.
Can you check that.
Re: What an excellent business plan!!
12-02-2009 4:50 PM
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