plusnet have wiped out all of my emails without warning

[#1]

I am disabled and extremely ill with terminal cancer.
I returned home from a day of chemo at the hospital at 7.30pm on Friday 15 March to find my lap top windows live mail account completely emptied of filed emails pertaining e.g to my complex medical treatment at several different hospitals, to trying to sort out my mother’s need for a support care package, to on-going litigation etc. Foolishly, I initially considered that I need not be too concerned about what I mistakenly thought was a blip on my lap top as the entire files were IMAPed and accordingly – I wrongly assumed – would be available on the plusnet webmail site.
It turns out that in fact it is Plusnet who have wiped them out – without any warning to me because for reasons known only to themselves, they have been sending warnings about over- storage to a disused Yahoo address instead of to my plusnet address. Plusnet send billing emails to my plusnet email address, yet sent the warning emails about over storage to a disused Yahoo address. I would add that I had never been informed by Plusnet that there was only limited storage available, and had set up this IMAP facility after it was recommended by their employees after in 2011 one of their engineers remotely wiped out my lap top inbox by permanently deleting the contents before enquiring of me if the contents were backed up.
Having received no response from me to their warning emails sent to a disused Yahoo address,  instead of contacting me via my plusnet address or texting me, they have arbitrarily simply removed and archived the entire contents for deletion.
Ill and exhausted from chemo, I had to try to sort this out with a very helpful chap Plusnet bloke  Anthony on Friday night. I am still waiting for the emails to be restored and was unable to do any necessary work on issues over the weekend because I did not have any necessary information, because  Plusnet had removed it all.
I really cannot understand the basis for this sort of arbitrary and arrogant behaviour by Plusnet. To start with, Plusnet are aware that I am disabled and very ill  and that this sort of behaviour would cause me significant distress and disruption, which is certainly has . I have been in a state of high anxiety and raised blood pressure all weekend incase they cannot restore them as they found them and am still waiting for them to reappear.
Further, no matter what circumstances a plusnet user iss in, this sort of behaviour is obviously unacceptable and totally uncalled for, to simply remove items in htis manner regardless of the disruption that they may be causing by this unnotified behaviour
There is a further general issue in that I pay £30pcm for my plusnet  service , i.e. over £300pa yet a free service like Yahoo offers unlimited storage over unlimited time, so why does Plusnet limit paid usage of the webmail facility?

[#2]

Hi janmid,
Sorry to see that your files were archived, they have now been restored so you should have access to them again.
Unfortunately storage is at a cost to us and companies like Yahoo have a way of means to to make money though this i.e. advertisement, email is there main business front whereas our is being an broadband provider.
Please let me know if you're able to access/view your email now?
Regards,
Chris

[#3]

Hello Chris
No they have not been fully restored.
In particular, the files relating to medical and cancer matters, my mother's matters and litigation matters have not been restored
These of course are the files from which I cannot afford ot lose information - they now contain emaisl dating back only to mid March 2013
So can you continue to restore these files please - I will put a message on the assisance section re which files are not yet complete.
On more genral notes. yes I know Yahoo get adverrtsing  Plusnet get revenue from users. £30pcm is not a cheap rate to pay for an nternet servcie, is it? Also, no warning is given that the storage facility is limited.
You also haven't addresed the issue of why Plusnet does nto ensure that users receive proper notification of a problem before its employees simply remove the items .
Perhaps you could address these issues?
THank you

[#4]

I have listed a number of files on the "assistance" page which have not been fully restored - unfortunately all of these relate to medical matters, litigation matters and trying to sort out my mother's matters and I cannot afford to lose this information. I find it unbelievable that having been careful to file all relevant in/out emails carefully for future reference, on the misinformation that this IMAPing would ensure that they were backed up, I have been caused this amount of unecessary stress on the unnotified whim of a Plusnet employee
For some reason that mystifies me, the response on the assistance page whilst not only wrongly claiming that everything has been fully restored, says that the matter will notb e looked at again until April 1. it obviously needs to be looked at today. I have to say that I also find the response on the assistance page  unacceptably peremptory in tone given that this entire problem is one of Plusnet's making by failing to inform me that there was a storage limit and then sending warning emails to the wrong address.
I would remind you that the files were only IMAPed because a Plusnet engineer had previously misinformed me that this was a way of backing up email files. I was given no warning that not only was there limited storage but Plusnet would be able to wipe out and interefer with not only emails ton their webpage but also emails tha had ben downloaded and stored on my lap top via Windows Live Mail. Please explain how thsi was possible without my express consent
No explanation has been provided of where in the T&Cs of the service agreement Plusnet sets out that it is entitled to limit storage space and arbitrarily remove and destroy user's emailsin this way - in due course please let me know where this can be found. In the meantime, as a priority, please continue to urgently fully restore all of the files that were removed. Thank you

[#5]

I've double checked and all of the folders you've referenced have been restored, along with the mails inside them. You should be able to confirm this by logging in to our webmail service here: webmail.plus.net using your username and password. If you can't see these folders via webmail, please let us know.

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I have been caused this amount of unecessary stress on the unnotified whim of a Plusnet employee

Whilst I understand your frustration, this was not done on a whim and we did email you more than once to inform you. I understand that this email address was no longer in use, however we aren't to know that and rely on customers to update their contact details to ensure they are correct.

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I was given no warning that not only was there limited storage but Plusnet would be able to wipe out and interefer with not only emails ton their webpage but also emails tha had ben downloaded and stored on my lap top via Windows Live Mail. Please explain how thsi was possible without my express consent

We have no access to your laptop. If you are using IMAP then the emails are stored server side, not locally on your computer. Therefore any changes on the IMAP server would be shown on your laptop mail client too.

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No explanation has been provided of where in the T&Cs of the service agreement Plusnet sets out that it is entitled to limit storage space and arbitrarily remove and destroy user's emailsin this way - in due course please let me know where this can be found.

This is covered in section 8 of the Acceptable Usage Policy which is linked from the T&Cs. https://www.plus.net/info2/legal/aup.html

[#6]

There is generally two types of email (well 3 including gmail/yahoo etc.) which are POP3 and IMAP.  IMAP keeps the messages on the internet so if there is a blip (and previously there was a major blip with PlusNet where all email was lost, iirc a guy thought he was using a dummy console instead of a live console and accidentally deleted all the emails, live consoles are now red) you can lose your email.  POP3 downloads the emails off the server to your computer, if you're using Outlook (the version that comes with Office) you can back up your emails by storing the PST file somewhere safe, of course, this means you can only access emails you've downloaded on the computer they were downloaded to (your client deletes the emails off the server once downloaded).
I would also suggest you look at the packages PlusNet currently offer, you can get Unlimited from £9.99 a month saving you £20 a month.

[#7]

Quote from: janmid

Plusnet send billing emails to my plusnet email address, yet sent the warning emails about over storage to a disused Yahoo address.

I can't see any explanation from Plusnet as to why this happened!

[#8]

I assume either the "postmaster" address is redirected to Yahoo, or the Contact address is to Yahoo. Billing-related notices are sent to both; one is probably lost but the other delivered. However IIRC ad-hoc notices are sent only to one address and it looks like that was the Yahoo one.

[#9]

Bit late now but, with Thunderbird you can backup the mail it gets using local folders, even with IMAP (I do this with gmail/my domain) so if they cr*p out you still have a copy locally.

[#10]

Strangely, I am not able to continue posting into my original thread - so make the following response comments here:
"we did email you more than once to inform you. I understand that this email address was no longer in use, however we aren't to know that and rely on customers to update their contact details to ensure they are correct." Plusnet were to know that as you were informed by me
Besides which, your explanation makes no sense. Why wouldn't you contact me via my plusnet email address re an issue with my plusnet service? I am still awaiting an explanation as to why Plusnet believes it is entitled to behave in this bullying. arbitrary and aggressive manner without notice - why weren't the warning emails sent to my Plusnet address? Why wasn't I texted? Why does Plusnet believe that it is wholly acceptable to treat a customer paying £360pa in this manner?
Why was there no attempt to contact me before carrying out this action which as caused endless stress and upset especailly as you have bene incapable of properly restoring all of the files that you deleted without any notice?
As regards the still missing email files - why are you disputing this rather than investigating it and trying to assist? Do you really think that someone who has a few months to get her life sorted out before dying would be wasting her time making up allegations to post on your website?
"We have no access to your laptop. If you are using IMAP then the emails are stored server side, not locally on your computer. Therefore any changes on the IMAP server would be shown on your laptop mail client too." So you were fully aware that any deletions from my website access would result in these disappearing from my lap top.
On what date was the information T&Cs that you refer to posted? It post-dates my contractual agreement, doesn't it?
Lastly, could you post a reference to Plusnet's  equalities statement.
Thank you.

[#11]

mod:note
Topics merged to keep the thread in one place.
janmid there is nothing preventing you replying to this thread

[#12]

Quote from: jelv

Quote from: janmid Plusnet send billing emails to my plusnet email address, yet sent the warning emails about over storage to a disused Yahoo address. I can't see any explanation from Plusnet as to why this happened!

There is some logic to it ...
Sending an Inbox full e-mail to the inbox that is full won't ever get delivered as well the inbox is full. In this scenario a backup e-mail address would be invoked to give you the notification.
The same applies if your account is suspended for any reason, they cant send the notification to somewhere they know you cant read.
It does sound like the e-mails were archived away and haven't actually been deleted yet which is good practice for them. With regards to the t&c's they will have a clause in your contract that reserves the right to modify the acceptable use policy.

[#13]

Mod- Thank you for merging threads.. I have in fact experienced further dificulties in posting into the thread. This is my final comment:
People replyng - thank you for some useful information. I've obviously been misinformed about IMAP as I wrongly understood it to be a form of preserving emails downloaded to my lap top as they would be backed up on webmail. Instead, it turns out to be a system whereby Plusnet employees can interfere with/delete them without warning and by doing that they would then be deleted on my lap top. It also would never have occurred to me that I could be paying £360pa for a service but there would nonetheless be a problem about the amount of storage space available. I am not running a business or whatever and it would not have occurred to me that the amount of space that  I require on webmail was so enormous as to be unacceptable to the service provider, notwithstanding that other free services like Yahoo offer unlimited space and have a policy of never deleting user's mail.
I also do not understand why Plusnet don't text customers to warn them before interfering with their intellectual property. They must be aware that regardless of the user's personal circumstances, simply removing all of their stored emails without notice is going to cause stress and disruption to the customer. Frankly I find the entire behaviour  arrogant and unacceptable.This has caused me a huge amount of unnecessary stress and exhaustion at a time when I am already very ill and is going to take several days to sort out - all unnecessarily as if Plusnet had sent me emails to my Plusnet address I could have addressed it several months ago. Instead of which they sent emails to a defunct Yahoo address for six months and then just removed all of the emails, which was the first that I knew of the problem.
Re "There is some logic to it ...Sending an Inbox full e-mail to the inbox that is full won't ever get delivered as well the inbox is full"
My plusnet in-box was not full, and I download and read my emails on a daily basis, deleting or filing them as necessary. In fact I do this several times a day most days, so Plusnet were fully aware that the account was active. It was wholly illogical therefore not to have sent emails about taking up to much space etc to my daily downloaded plusnet address. They also are supposed to have me noted as disabled but appear to have made no reasonable disability adjustments whatsoever, for example considering if the reason they had received no reply was because I hadn't received their messages, or the disruption that would be caused by simply "disappearing" email files that were clearly titled "cancer" or had the names of various hospitals and were clearly active files and directly connected to medical treatment.
My full files have now re=appeared on webmail but have not successfully re-appeared in my lap top files, thus causing more time consuming confusion to sort out. My lap top was carefully organised to assist in my being able to deal with all of the salient matters notwithstanding that I was also dealing with major illness etc. Thanks to Plusnet, those carefully set up systems are now in a mess. I have a limited time left before death so you'll understand that time is precious to me - thanks to Plusnet, I  now have to spend some of those days entirely devoted to sorting out this mess of Plusnet's making. They have agreed given my illness to extend their standard time to remove the "excess" from three days to fourteen and have warned me that if it is not sorted out by then they will delete everything.
"I would also suggest you look at the packages PlusNet currently offer, you can get Unlimited from £9.99 a month saving you £20 a month." Given that I am paying such an amount, one might have thought that extra storage space could have been found.......The problem with trying to switch to another package is that it is likely to end in the confusion and disruption experienced by another poster elsewhere on the forum, and I am wholly dependent on the internet. Frankly, after all of the unnecessary stress and upset caused by this, if I had the capacity to make changes I'd terminate my Plusnet contract. After this appalling and distressing experience I have absolutely  no confidence remaining in them.

[#14]

@keithwalton
I'm not sure that is correct. I don't think Plusnet initially block further incoming mail when you exceed a certain limit (as with some other providers). They first send out the warning mail messages. Whether the time they allow for you to deal with this is long enough, is debatable.
The other problem is that some emails from Plusnet only go to the email address registered at the member centre, whilst others only go to the Postmaster address. I think emails about removing/archiving mail should at least go to both. This is the point jelv was making.
Text messages should also be included if you have a mobile number registered at the member centre.
In this particular case, the threat to delete everything within 14 days is frankly insensitive, unacceptable and grossly inconsiderate.
@janmid
I'm very sorry to read about your situation.
I can only hope that someone senior enough at Plusnet wakes up to this situation and deals with the matter in a more sensitive way.
As an aside, depending on whether you have time or not, and space on your laptop - apart from using IMAP as you currently do, you could also download the important messages from the server to your laptop (and still leave them on the server).

[#15]

Quote from: janmid

"I would also suggest you look at the packages PlusNet currently offer, you can get Unlimited from £9.99 a month saving you £20 a month." Given that I am paying such an amount, one might have thought that extra storage space could have been found.......The problem with trying to switch to another package is that it is likely to end in the confusion and disruption experienced by another poster elsewhere on the forum, and I am wholly dependent on the internet. Frankly, after all of the unnecessary stress and upset caused by this, if I had the capacity to make changes I'd terminate my Plusnet contract. After this appalling and distressing experience I have absolutely  no confidence remaining in them.

It shouldn't result in any issues.  You simply select the new plan and on your next billing date you'll find you are paying much less for your broadband than you previously would.  Your £360 a year would drop down to £120 a year, or even more if you don't require unlimited so go on a cheaper package.  If there were any issues (and as I say, there really shouldn't be) then posting in this forum would get it fixed pretty quickly.  Heck, I'm sure if you asked for it to happen in this post, someone like Adam would do it all for you so insuring you're on the cheaper package without any stress.