Fibre installation process

[#1]

@bigfish 

@Mr_Paul  beat me to it - that was going to be my next suggestion if you don't fancy re-decorating your chosen room. External grade SCC Cat5e cable. It would probably need a second hole and could be terminated in an ethernet wall socket.

To keep things neat you can get downward (and upward, left and right) facing ethernet cables for the short hop from the ONT to the socket.

Probably something that can't / shouldn't be done until your ONT's actually on the wall.

Brian

[#2]

Well you have just read my mind! Yes, that is perfectly possible and as luck would have it, our electrical engineers arrived today (who are working on our extension) and I discussed this idea with them and you can either get external grade ethernet and/ or external grade conduit and take a route from inside to outside at low level and then back in again to access the loft. They suggested that CityFibre will probably want to locate the router as near to the ONT as possible, which will mean incorporating an ethernet switch in the hall near where we currently have a number of ethernet cables terminating in our PlusNet router.

I am feeling more confident that this is a workable solution which will avoid any wall chasing, dust and unpleasantness!

Thank you for your responses and interest.

[#3]

@bigfish  There is no reason or any need for the router to be anywhere near the ONT. Unless you are going for a MultiGigabit service the router is connected by a normal Cat5e ethernet cable with 100 metre maximum length. (long enough for most houses😀)

The router could be positioned for better wi-fi coverage, such as near the centre of the house.

[#4]

@bigfish 

You pays your money and you takes your chance!!!

If you're happy running external cable yourself then you have a workable solution which enables you to plan and spend money if you're willing to take a chance.

From reading the CityFibre installation page and from what I know of OR installs they will come in at your desired point if possible. You could install duct to take advantage of the open trench (at a slight angle to ensure water runoff and tape up either end) and hope that CF will use it (take a picture of it in place). The other posibility is CF use the OR duct (and if OR ever offer FTTP they would). In this case are you happy to trench round the house to your chosen point. If doing your own trench both FY and OR would presumably be happy for it to go from where the OR duct enters your property.

This would guarentee your chosen entry point and allow to to plan what happens inside.

Given that routers connect via ethernet cable I do not see why they need to be near the ONT. If they insist then there's nothing to stop you complying when the installing engineers are there and then moving it as soon as the door closes on them going out.

If you're willing to take the chance then there's nothing to stop your installing the external ethernet cable in advance up to the loft. Simply ensure that it isn't located in a position that would affect the incoming fibre cable and ONT. I believe solid copper core Cat5e external cable would be enough. While Cat6 offers more capacity (cut same speed) it's far less flexible when going round corners.

Brian

[#5]

@bmc 

"While Cat6 offers more capacity (cut same speed) it's far less flexible when going round corners."

Isn't Cat6 cable normally better screened than Cat5e, which partly explains why it is less flexible - but would make it less prone to picking up interference?

[#6]

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@bigfish wrote:

....I was thinking of installing a 15mm dia flexible duct/ conduit from the CF socket to the side wall of the house where the cable could then be routed up the wall and into the loft without it being on full view.

.....I spoke to a friendly Openreach chap this morning who just happened to be sitting in a BT cable trench in the road and told him of my plan; he thought the idea was a good one but suggested that whoever puts the fibre cable in, that they might not want to put it in my conduit.

---

First let me declare that I know nothing about how copper or fibre is ducted into houses. In my case the cable appears out of the wall in the hall from under the floor. If there's a duct it's not accessible. However if it was me I would be doing a bit more research. If OR/CF are around then it's worth talking to them or seeking out some-one who has had ducting installed.

From a quick look around the net I understand that Openreach have their own approved conduit, which whilst not cheap, is available to buy. The smallest diameter seems to be 54mm. This is considerably more than 15mm. It is also rigid, not flexible.

I would:

1. Separate my duct from other services in the trench as far as possible. I read that services have a preferred installation depth, with telecoms at 250mm.

2. Photograph it before it is backfilled.

3. Feed a polystyrene draw rope through the conduit.

4. Keep my fingers crossed and be ready to chat up the CF installer.

Hopefully there will be another contributor to this forum who can pitch in with more info on any duct that they have or had installed by OR.

[#7]

@Mr_Paul 

The important thing to remember for consumers is that they both offer the same speed.

A Cat6 cable has a plastic cross spine splitting the 4 pairs of cable. As you state this means it is better at reducing interference. It's why it offers more capacity. For the average household it doesn't really matter - it's highly unlikely they will have the high data throughput to notice any difference. It's more useful if you have a high number of end users (eg public WiFi) or in data centres where capacity matters.

You can also get shielded Cat6 cable where all 4 pairs of internal cables are shielded and if it really matters you can get cables with an external shield on top. It you look online you can find pictures of the various cables.

Brian

[#8]

@bmc 

OK, I was just thinking that as this particular ethernet cable would be carrying all of the data that passes through their new FTTP connection, (ie not just one device on it), and it would be a shame to get a lovely super-fast connection and risk compromising it by risking external interference.

It is up to @bigfish  of course, but if it was me I would be using the best possible quality cable for this important connection. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

They could obviously try a basic Cat5e cable, it will probably be OK, but if problems arise once fitted or in the future, that is the first point I would look at checking.

[#9]

The electrician, who does commercial and domestic power and data installations suggested Cat6.

[#10]

@bigfish 

I would also try to get the best shielded Cat6 cable you can, as described by @bmc in message #22.

I'm guessing that you only want to install this cable once, and then be able to forget about it?

[#11]

@bigfish  @Mr_Paul 

My personal opinion is that a domestic household is unlikely to have the data useage to make a Cat6 cable worthwhile. It's not just the actual amount of data but the number of users connected at the same time. However if used remember to get a Cat6 cable for the hop from the ONT to router and the router to an ethernet switch if used.

Apart from the cost considerations Cat6 is not particuraly flexible - it doesn't do right angles. When taken outside there would be a significant bend before the cable could be brought back into the wall for securing with cable clips.

That's my opinion anyway.

Of more importance is to buy / specify good quality solid copper core (SCC) cable. Copper coated aluminium (CCA) or copper coated steel (CCS) is cheaper for a reason - far less copper to carry the data signal.

Brian

[#12]

@bmc 

It is not the speed or actual amount of data used that I am talking about, rather the potential for interference to "knock out" or otherwise affect the whole service.

I was only considering the cable that would be routed externally, for example depending upon where in the country @bigfish lives, there could be the potential for picking up interference from a local medium wave radio transmitter with a vertical cable - hence the recommendation for screening. (It is a problem that I occasionally experienced when I worked as a broadcast engineer when working at Watford football club, picking up what was Capital Radio from the Saffron Green transmitter.

If the router and ethernet switch are next to each other, then a short, good quality, Cat5e cable will suffice.

[#13]

@Mr_Paul 

You learn something new every day.

@bigfish 

I've just spent 10 minutes watching a CF installer working on the underground cabinet in my neighbours garden. Unlike OR who installed a Connectorized Block Terminal (CBT) in the chamber CT simply added 7 small individual ducts to the main duct they'd pulled through a couple of weeks back. The chamber servers 7 houses.

I suspect if anyone ordered a CF service they pull a small duct through the OR house duct and then blow a fibre cable back to the street cabinet at the top of the road.

Have you seen any of the CF people working on their cabinet or the adjoining OR one? Is their a trench between the two?

Brian

[#14]

City Fibre have only carried out the infrastructure work in our street. They have laid bundles of very small, empty conduits, (they apparently call these 'straws') in the pavement. There are empty sockets installed in front of each property at the back of the pavement ready for the fibre to be run and connected back to the street cabinet. The cabinet is a long way down the street, so I'm not sure if CF have done any work in this cabinet. I have seen them (or one of their sub-contractors) working in a cabinet some way away, but it's not easy to know if our nearest cabinet is ready for the fibre to be distributed.

Does anyone know what the diameter of the fibre cable that runs from the pavement socket to the house is?

[#15]

@bigfish 

When you say empty sockets in front of each property do you mean something like this.

This is called a Toby Box and only the top part is visible from the pavement. If it's not can you post a picture.

I think it is probably 5mm duct that runs to your house. That appeared to be the approximate size of the bundles added to the chamber serving me,

If you want to see a bit of house installing and fibre blowing have a look at this from B4RN

https://b4rn.org.uk/about-b4rn/news-events/b4rn-connections-a-day-in-the-life

Brian