Random DSL dropouts over 4 months, no solution.

[#1]

Thanks for putting me at ease regarding the WAN log.
I checked for a dial tone and there isn’t one.
Yes it’s 3.5 days without interruption, but as I’ve stated this is not uncommon , in fact I’ve had 10 days with no interruption 3 weeks ago.
This experience is leaving a bad taste in my mouth regarding communication. My line dropped for 10mins this afternoon, because it was a long time I knew Openreach were working on the line, I walked up the road and saw him looking at a connection in a service chamber. I spoke to him for a while and mentioned my Monday appointment was cancelled by Openreach because, according to Plusnet, they could fix my fault remotely. He shook his head and said Openreach do not cancel appointments, isp’s do, he said I was misinformed as isp’s tell the customer what they want to hear. I believe him up to a point, however I said Openreach’s communication leaves a lot to be desired. For example why wasn’t I notified that my broadband would be interrupted this afternoon? Why wasn’t I notified by Openreach they were working on my line? There are massive communication problems between an isp, Openreach and the customer. It’s a farce.
As it stands the engineer thinks there is a dodgy joint under 30m of road, it could be a while before it’s fixed….

[#2]

I infer that the issue is thought to be in an inaccessible (underground) joint box?  In which case, you need a d-side swap.  It is not going to be 30m deep, but could be 30m away from an access chamber.

There are indeed a host of communication challenges.  In my experience they are centred around appointments booked by ISPs which for some reason within BTOR's business systems do not "go to confirmed", also after the visit the BTOR engineers do not update the fault case timely or at all.  I have known Plusnet to not receive updates until 4+ days after a fault has been fixed, such was discerned by Plusnet calling to apologise for the delayed fix ... only for me to advise them that its been fine for awhile and they reporting the data available to them reports the service still down.

As for BTOR "do not cancel appointments" (with users) - that would be entirely true, in that if a BTOR guy cannot turn up, they do not cancel appointments (to keep the user informed), they just do not turn up.  It is untrue that BTOR do not cancel appointments with ISPs - they do it all of the time - typically when they cannot find a fault via remote testing.

[#3]

And all the while the customer is the one who suffers.
The engineer I spoke to today said the engineer who was present yesterday (why is it always a different assigned engineer?) recommended a d side swap from the cabinet to the post where my new copper cable went to from my property. Whether there was a spare line I have no idea as the Openreach guy has left.

[#4]

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@Townman wrote:
An uninterrupted VDSL connection will give rise to no WAN activity. My last WAN entry is 14th May and the DSL session is circa 128 !days. .

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Well that put a jinx on things.  Hours after posting this at 02:12 on 19th Sept my DSL (was reported to have) dropped for 36 seconds after being up for 127.997 days.  Makes me wonder if there is a 128 day (reset) threshold on long lasting xDSL sessions?

How is your service performing now?

[#5]

I haven’t had a dropout (apart from Openreach disconnecting the line twice while working on it) for nearly 5 days, however this is not a sign everything is ok, I’ve had a 10 day uninterrupted streak 4 weeks ago, plus a few 2 days here and there. Openreach are here now, I’ve been told they’re going to have to dig up a part of road to find a series of joints that they think are causing the intermittent issue, it’s a part of the copper line that is very old, but as it’s not in a conduit and is buried (I guess future proofing didn’t exist decades ago lol) they’ll have to dig it up, could take a few days to arrange. And so it continues…

[#6]

Openreach engineer knocked on the door with some important info, it seems my line 150m away takes a different route than what they thought, it was assumed my line goes underground for a little distance, in fact it doesn’t go underground at all, it’s all from pole to pole. I’m not entirely sure how a myriad of engineers failed to pick up on this, but there you have it. A lift is being arranged for Monday for an engineer to check the joints on a couple of poles, I believe this is where they’ll find the issue. Sigh..

[#7]

Well that’s progress. As likely as not the signal will have been traced locally and at the cabinet … and then some presumption on the intermediate route. It’s possible that there are several d-side trunks.

[#8]

So, I had 2 Openreach engineers over on Tuesday, one of them being the line manager, who was clearly more knowledgeable than all who had been previously. They checked joints on the 2 poles that they hadn’t realised my line was attached to and all looked good (apparently). They then visited my home and we had a chat. The manager said practically all avenues have been exhausted outside of my home (they’ve said that at least twice before yet still somehow manage to find something to check) and are pointing towards my Ethernet cable connections to my router. I am told a possible “short” in one or more cables can cause my line to drop. I said I have already tried removing the cables but the line drop still occurs, the only cable I didn’t remove was the one that goes to my BT Wholehome mesh, I need that attached to the main disc that sits next to the router at all times as I have a holiday let on the property that uses it. They said the only thing in their mind that’s now the cause is either the disc or the cable attached to it, which I find highly unlikely but possible, I guess. While they were here they mumbled to each other that they should install a Gfast Vdsl master socket, apparently it has a great filter on it that helps with RF interference, so they got one out of their van and put it on, at the same time I attached a new Ethernet cable from the disc to the router, so all in all that day 4 things were looked at and changed/checked. As of yet I haven’t had a dropout, if this continues I’m betting either them remaking the joints and changing my master socket would be the more likely culprit than me changing the Ethernet cable, time will tell I guess….

Im sorely disappointed at the length of time this has taken and the myriad of mistakes along the way. I’m very disappointed with Circet in particular, they are the ones who should be checking for cable issues INSIDE the home, not Openreach. The Circet guy who visited didn’t even check for potential cable issues, he was so convinced that my 3 devices using the same channel was the issue (Wi-Fi does not cause dsl drops) he didn’t even bother looking at any cable connections. What a [-Censored-]show. 

[#9]

and are pointing towards my Ethernet cable connections to my router. I am told a possible “short” in one or more cables can cause my line to drop.

I couldn't say categorically that its impossible, but I can't see an ethernet cable fault causing a DSL drop. I suppose its just possible that a short in the cable could affect the power supply in the Hub but I would have thought that the ethernet interface electronics is designed to cope and isolate cable faults.

[#10]

The “acid” question is - did they locate and repair a faulty joint at 30m from somewhere? IIRC that is where a detected fault was reported to be … which is a good distance away from your Ethernet cable.

[#11]

And this is the problem I have, there’s no conclusive proof that an Ethernet connection can cause a dsl drop. This particular line manager categorically says that it can, others say no or maybe possible. 

[#12]

No, all they done was remake the joint, which they said was fine anyway.  Openreach could never detect a fault as such, all they could see was my line dropping. Sky and Plusnet say they could see a fault at their end on the line somewhere, however Openreach says all isp’s say this to get Openreach out as it’s not possible for them to actually see a fault on the line outside my home. I’m inclined to believe this as Plusnet sent out a Circet guy, they wouldn’t have done this if they’re saying the fault is outside of my home. 

[#13]

Sorry, Openreach are talking utter spheres!!

An ISP cannot send out a BTOR engineer unless line tests using BTOR provided test facilities detect and record a fault. Where there are repeated disconnections but a fault cannot be detected when tested, an ISP’s only recourse is a Qube / Circet engineer as a preliminary elimination of a user side issue.

Fault not found on testing does not mean that there are no INTERMITTENT faults. Such faults arise from bad (damp) joints which can “heal” in response to test voltages applied to the line. Tests from the user end and from the exchange end can show different results.

I’ve had 18 engineers out to a problematic line, tests from the user end reporting no fault but the exchange reported exit-test-fault being dismissed as a faulty test head by the BTOR engineer. Eventually an engineer believed the exit test failure and eventually found a bad cable joint. IIRC it was a copper - aluminium joint. Is there aluminium in your “copper” circuit?

You have had two ISPs detecting a fault on the line; you’ve got disconnections showing something is wrong. The fact that BTOR has not been able to locate and rectify the fault when attending, does not mean there is no fault to be found. This issue needs every joint double checking (remade) or an entire d-side swap.

From experience I’d trust the ISP’s judgement more than the Openreach engineer … and it’s a massive assumption that they are a BT engineer … many are subcontractors of varying standards.

[#14]

Thanks for your detailed reply. Ive just got off the phone to Plusnet and they’ve confirmed what you’ve just said, they use BTOR systems to detect faults on a users line. Why on earth am I being told by OR Plusnet are not able to detect a fault? The mind boggles. Anyway, Plusnet can still detect a fault on my line, so how can it be an Ethernet connection plugged in to my router that’s the issue??? 
I think OR are finding it very odd that even though my line drops my speed is always stable. This partially explains why they think the fault lies within my property. 

[#15]

Had 2 dropouts over the weekend, a shame as I had hopes that by installing the vfast master socket would have somehow sorted it. I spoke to Plusnet on Friday and they said don’t bother to change the BT Wholehome disc that the router is connected to, which is going against what OP are saying, so I’m now kinda back to square one. Plusnet are calling back today and I’m pretty sure they’re going to ask for the OP line manager to come out again, he’s the one who’s convinced it’s something in my property. Nightmare….