Cannot delete emails from Webmail Sent Folder

[#1]

Hey there @millerv 

Thanks for doing the test for me. Clearly didn't work so you can set it back up as normal now and if @Townman can find the telnet command then fantastic and we can try that. If not, I will get it pushed back to our netops guys. I'll keep an eye on this thread personally.

[#2]

POP3 wont help, it doesn't access the Sent folder on the server. Its sent folder is a local one.

[#3]

@MisterW

That is exactly what I THOUGHt but I have no firm experience to base that on. What I was uncertain about is if the sent items is a sub folder of the inbox … might POP3 pick it up?

I have little experience of POP3 client operation … as I’ve always found it a total pain in the butt … especially where the requirement is multi client access.

[#4]

@Townman POP3 stores everything in local storage. When you collect mail it copies any new mail from Inbox, since the last time it was run, to the local INBOX. If its set to delete from server then it will delete mail on the server at the same time. If set to leave on server , it will either delete after n days or when you delete from the local Inbox.

Sent mail is sent ( via the smtp server ) and copied to the local Sent folder.

What I was uncertain about is if the sent items is a sub folder of the inbox … might POP3 pick it up?

No, it ONLY accesses Inbox AFAIK

as I’ve always found it a total pain in the butt … especially where the requirement is multi client access. 

It certainly is!, I used to use POP with 'leave on server' from my main machine to allow access from other clients, but have changed to IMAP for everything now!.

Could the OP's problem be a 'mismatched' Sent folder , some clients name it 'Sent' whereas others 'Sent Items' ?

If the wrong folder is 'synched' what happens ?

[#5]

It is potentially complicated.

Different IMAP clients could be using different server folders for sent / trash / drafts. To see the entirety in any IMAP configuration one needs to query / subscribe to all folders on the server.

Heading home will research telnet commands to poke the IMAP server (and look for similar for POP3).

Quick google search - start here https://www.vircom.com/blog/quick-guide-of-pop3-command-line-to-type-in-telnet/

[#6]

There are quite a few IMAP tools around but most seem to be python or perl based, which is fine on a 'nix' machine but not so easy on a Windows box...

[#7]

Symptoms would indicate a corrupted sent folder database. You’d have to destroy the file and recreate it on the server, not something end users can do I would expect.

@millerv
One thing you could try is to copy a email into the sent folder and see if it stays there or disappears. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[#8]

As suggested, I just copied an email that was in the Inbox into the Sent Folder.  Logged out & back in, email still there.  So I then tried deleting it.  But it bounced back into the Sent Folder again after being deleted, greyed out but still there (as with all the others).

[#9]

@millerv 

After a few hours of playing with various stuff... I can confirm that a POP3 client will not see anything other than the content of the INBOX - be that a POP3 client or telnet poking using this guidance - Quick guide of POP3 command line to type in telnet (vircom.com)

Poking the IMAP server from telnet might be more productive. See...

• IMAP Protocol Crib Sheet (donsutherland.org)
• IMAP 101: Manual IMAP Sessions - IMAP commands - Atmail email

Here are the steps I took to play with one of my mailboxes and successfully delete mail items from the sent folder.  My input is in the boxes, responses below them.

Run up a CMD PROMPT or Windows Terminal session.

telnet imap.plus.net 143

   * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4REV1] perdition ready on mail.plus.net 00029cec

01 login email_name account_password

01 OK LOGIN Ok.

02 list "" *

* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Test Folder 1"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Trash"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Spam"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Sent"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Drafts"
* LIST (\Marked \HasChildren) "." "INBOX"
02 OK LIST completed

03 select "INBOX.Sent"

* FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\* \Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
* 1 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 653548812] Ok
* OK [MYRIGHTS "acdilrsw"] ACL
03 OK [READ-WRITE] Ok

04 STATUS INBOX.Sent (MESSAGES)

* STATUS "INBOX.Sent" (MESSAGES 1)
04 OK STATUS Completed.

05 store 1 +FLAGS (\Deleted)

* 1 FETCH (FLAGS (\Seen \Deleted))
05 OK STORE completed.

06 expunge

* 1 EXPUNGE
* 0 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
06 OK EXPUNGE completed

07 close

07 OK mailbox closed.

08 logout

* BYE Courier-IMAP server shutting down
08 OK LOGOUT completed

Connection to host lost.
PS C:\Users\me>

Notes:

1. I found it very helpful to have a WEBMAIL session open on the mailbox whilst doing this
2. The command interface is totally unforgiving - back space looks like it might work if you type a mistake, but your error will be recorded already, you'll need to type the command again
3. Commands to IMAP must be prefixed by something - anything - the use of a number sequence above has no significance beyond being helpful to refer to steps as per the below...
4. Detailed guidance...
   • 01 The email_name should be
     • the plusnet account name if it is the default mailbox
     • plusnet_account_name+mailbox_name if it is a secondary mailbox
   • 03 Check that your rights to the Sent folder matches those above marked in red - this could be the cause of your issue
   • 04 Tells you how many messages are in the folder
   • 05 Marks the mail item to be deleted - after doing this, if you refresh the WEBMAIL session the message(s) deleted will appear greyed out
   • 06 Disposes of the mail item - after doing this, if you refresh the WEBMAIL session, the messages should have been removed - and will not be in the deleted items folder
5. If the above 01-06 results in the successful removal of a mail item from the sent folder, repeat steps 04 to 06 to delete blocks of messages using...
   
   

   05 store 1:n +FLAGS (\Deleted)​

   where n is a number not greater than the message count reported in 04.

If this does not work, then clearly there is something wrong with the server, for you will now have ruled out two different email clients - yours and webmail - as being the culprits.

Good luck!

[#10]

Thank you for all your work Townman, but I don't have your technical know how and that all just looks damn scary to me.

[#11]

It really is not quite as scary as it looks.

I have ran this 4 times to get it very clear step by step.  If you watch steps 05 and 06 in the webmail session, you cannot go wrong.  Nothing changes until step 06 and the worst which an happen is you delete some of the emails you want to get rid of .. and you will see those greyed out in webmail before they go.

If anything does not look as above- back out skip to 07 and 08.

Step 03 should be very informative if there are any permissions issues on the Sent Items folder ... which at present is where my money is.

This guide will be useful elsewhere...

[#12]

So I found the command prompt (I had to look up where to find it) and typed in the "telnet ... etc and it says 'telnet is not recognised as and internal or external command, operable program or batch file'

[#13]

Ah - ok!!

From elsewhere...

1. TELNET - this might need installing as an additional option, for Windows see enabling TELNET.

[#14]

Sorry if I am being slow.  But I am now having problems logging in.  I put in my account name (email address) and the password that I use and it says 'login BAD Unrecognised command, mate'

[#15]

Ok, apparently I had to put in A1 before the login