UK copper landline switch off

[#1]

I was reading that old copper landlines are being switched off.

So when it's off can I remove all the copper wires that run in to my home and all internal telephone copper wires?

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/bt-switch-old-landline-phones-9267438

[#2]

@Leapy 

Copper landlines are not being switched off. What is happening is the PSTN is closing - ofically by end of 2025 though your guess is as good as anyones. If you want a phone service you need to use VOIP.

The copper line from the FTTC cabinet to your house will be used to supply internet using an OR product called SOGEA - unless of course you have a full fibre connection.

Brian

[#3 · Accepted solution]

@Leapy 

Maybe this will help: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-the-copper-network

Especially this paragraph:

"When 75% of the homes and businesses connected to a particular exchange can get Full Fibre you won’t be able to buy our old copper products if Full Fibre is available at your premises, this includes Gfast, Superfast Fibre and Standard Broadband."

So in these areas my interpretation is that if you want a new connection, say you move house, you have to go Full Fibre if it's available, despite there being a working FTTC service..

The question in my mind is whether this announcement means that all exchange connected phone lines will be swapped to SOGEA by the published exchange closure date, rather than the end of 2025? This will not affect BT as they are already in the process of moving their customers to SOGEA but could affect Plusnet and other ISPs.

[#4]

Moderator's note:
Thread moved from Broadband to Everything Else

[#5]

Better not remove anything unless your alternative is up and running. The OR tech used our copper line to pull the fibre across a busy road and then into the house. 

[#6]

@Baldrick1 @Longliner @bmc Thanks for your helpful feedback.

I'm on full fibre and I've just given up the static landline that was on VOIP because calls  to /from mobiles are more flexible, for me when not at home. 

So I'm not using any of the old copper wires. that once connected to the internet, landline and extensions. 

I presume that all the copper wires from outside to the old master socket by the front door, are owned by BT/Openreach.

Do I own all the old, now unused internal copper wires used for phones and internet that BT installed many years ago?

Also, at some point in the future, I might need to remove the old master socket by the front door. I this a DIY job (on YouTube) or does it need Openreach to cap-off in some way?🤔

[#7]

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@Leapy 

I presume that all the copper wires from outside to the old master socket by the front door, are owned by BT/Openreach.

Do I own all the old, now unused internal copper wires used for phones and internet that BT installed many years ago?

Also, at some point in the future, I might need to remove the old master socket by the front door. I this a DIY job 

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Basically yes... as regards removing the BT cables and master socket this link might be helpful.... removal-of-old-bt-copper-cable  once the BT cables have been fully disconnected and removed what you do with the internal sockets  and cables is up to you....  Don't do anything with the Master Socket until you are sure BT have disconnected and removed their external cable.

[#8]

Do I own all the old, now unused internal copper wires used for phones and internet that BT installed many years ago?

@Leapy you always did! anything connected your side of the master socket (via the faceplate) is your responsibility.

Also, at some point in the future, I might need to remove the old master socket by the front door. I this a DIY job (on YouTube) or does it need Openreach to cap-off in some way?

Now that's a good question ? If Openreach has removed the external copper and disconnected from the master socket, then I'd say yes, you could remove it. If the line is still connected then its a different question ?

[#9]

@Leapy 

I'm guessing from your original post you're in or near Aberdeen.

If so, is your Full Fibre supplied by OR or CityFibre? If it's OpenReach did they leave your original copper line in place?

If it's OR then I suspect they'll never be back for the Master Socket so wouldn't notice if it wasn't there.

Brian

[#10]

It is  my understanding that Openreach own everything their side of the master socket, so the rulrs say that you can't remove it. However, I also understand that Openreach often use the copper to pull through the fibre and by doing so removes it.

Now the interesting question: Do Openreach record whether they have removed the copper? If not, how do they know who removed it if it's done properly, e.g. cable not left dangling from the pole?

[#11]

I don't think they bother. Our OR guy took some away, left some copper and yards of fibre sheathing lying in the back garden. We didn't mind, the witching hour when OR vans turn into pumpklns was drawing nigh and he had spent several hours to complete a very neat job.

[#12]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

It is  my understanding that Openreach own everything their side of the master socket, so the rulrs say that you can't remove it. However, I also understand that Openreach often use the copper to pull through the fibre and by doing so removes it.

Now the interesting question: Do Openreach record whether they have removed the copper? If not, how do they know who removed it if it's done properly, e.g. cable not left dangling from the pole?

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When they installed my  FTTP connection, the installer cut my copper where it entered my property, and at the pole, but left it attached to the pole - dunno if that is normal, but I'm not bothered, happy just to have the  one cable at my end.

[#13]

@Baldrick1 said "It is  my understanding that Openreach own everything their side of the master socket, so the rules say that you can't remove it."

My sort of understanding too, though no-one from PO/BT/OR ever installed a master socket in our house!

When we moved in (1979) there was a "Plan something-or-other" PO Telephones installation with a main phone and extension, using the big fat plugs that were current back then. I think the new system came in in 1981 and I cancelled whatever extra we were paying to rent the extension and installed my own master socket. I even reconfigured the old white Bakelite phones internals to suit!

At one stage we had a lot of phone wiring (installed by me) around the house, but of course over time "cordless" phones took over, the wiring degraded and I removed most of it. I even remember that at one time we had a dual-tone green trimphone! 🤣

Then we got t'internet, initially just via a dial-up modem and eventually broadband! So at some point I upgraded from old-school BT LJ sockets and put in a larger full-size master socket. Over time that's had various iterations, all installed by me!

Finally we had a new SOGEA/FTTC line installed, even then I've "customised" the master socket. BT-OR installed one surface-mounted (where I had pre-drilled a hole for the new cable) with a bulky dual-outlet faceplate; I replaced it with a recessed near-flush single-outlet faceplate and a captive cable (from behind) to the router.

And the original line, which is ceased but still has dial tone, has been reverted to a small LJ-type 1980s master socket fitted to a back box recessed in the plaster. All very tidy and never seen an engineer!

[#14]

@Leapy 

@Leapy wrote:

I presume that all the copper wires from outside to the old master socket by the front door, are owned by BT/Openreach.  -- Yes (including the Master socket) is OR's and their resposibility

Do I own all the old, now unused internal copper wires used for phones and internet that BT installed many years ago?  -- Yes anything internal to your home after the Master Socket is your responsibility

Also, at some point in the future, I might need to remove the old master socket by the front door.   Once the copper cable into your house is disconnected you can do what you like with this -- just be sure it has been disconnected properly or it may have 48V on the cable and you might cause problems in the exchange

 If OR don't remove the copper cable when they instal the FTTP fibre then this link may be useful ISP Review remove-old-bt-copper-cable .    A lot will depend on how the engineer instals the fibre cable, as others have said they may cut it and use it to pull the fibre cable to and into your house... that's what they did for ours as it came overhead over a couple of poles across mine and my neighbours garden.

[#15]

@HPsauce 

Maybe I should have qualified ‘master socket’. Back in the 70’s I too had one of these installations with a bell box and two Jack socket outlets into which the phone could be plugged. All this kit was rented from the PO. When I gave up the equipment rental a technician came, removed this kit and fitted a standard master socket. All the original extension cabling strung around the house was left disconnected.