Physical install flexibiity of engineers, your experiences?

[#1]

If I took FTTP I would need to get it physically to a specific location in my property which is a 1st floor cupboard in the centre of the property (i.e. not on an outside wall). FWIW the copper "master" socket is in this location. I can't see an openreach engineer playing ball on this one. I wondered what people have done to get the ONT installed to a location of their choosing rather than right next to where the drill pops out of the wall.

My current copper comes overhead from a pole across the street and discreetly down the wall to the grey box outside the property. From there cabling runs within walls, etc, to the cupboard (builder installed the interior cables at build-time 12 years ago).

Will OR insist on coming inside at the same point as the copper?

Could I suggest an alternative location nearer to where the existing copper from the pole meets the outside wall, just beneath the eaves roof level ?

I assume the route will be from the same pole across the street - will the existing copper be left in place or removed (I would think leaving it would offer more strength to support the fibre) ?

I'm considering running a 20mm flexi conduit (containing a draw-string) from the cupboard via ceiling voids and an indoor duct (containing soilpipes from bathroom) that drops next to either of those two points just mentioned. If I do this, would OR run their fibre from outside through that to my cupboard and install the ONT there?

If not, if I were to run fibre myself to meet OR, would they connect to it and place the ONT in the cupboard?

If I installed fibre myself what would I need to get? Presumably we're aren't talking standard multimode fibre (which is more like a pair of single-fibre cables) - I expect there is one cable with at least two fibres in it (assuming two is required for duplex comms). I can find very little no info about the actual cables.

When I finally get the ONT where I want it, I assume I can then just connect my current modified HubOne (which runs OpenWRT) to it and reconfigure OpenWRT appropriately - I don't need a specific different kind of router, do I?

I really do not want "kit" or cabling of any description anywhere else in the house.

Lots of questions, would really appreciate insights from anyone "In the know" and/or who has been through this. Any experiences shared appreciated.

[#2]

@starfry 

Can't answer everything but as it's an overhead installation OR will replace your current o/h cable with a fibre one. There will be a bit of flexibility on where the cable comes in (it goes to a CSP - Customer Splice Point on the external wall first).

A good engineer will work with you if it's possbile to install where you want - unfortunately you don't know until the day. For example it's possble the builder put in an internal duct for the phone cable. Even it not, the engineer might be able to use the existing cable to pull through the fibre cable.

So long as your equipment supports PPPoE it can be conencted directly to the ONT.

Brian

Brian

[#3]

@starfry  to add to @bmc  's advice

From here https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/fibre-broadband/installation-options

Openreach's standard installation covers:-

FTTP 

For our standard installation, our engineers will:

• connect an optical network terminator (ONT) within 1m of the nearest 13amp power socket and up to 10m from where the fibre enters the building
• run any external cable needed to reach the nearest suitable fibre entry point.
• connect your customer’s router next to the ONT
• connect one device – a set-top box, PC, laptop or smartphone. They won’t connect games consoles, Wi-Fi extenders or mesh network devices, dongles or any other devices which are specific to a communications provider. And they must have been connected to the customers’ network previously.
• upgrade a master socket to the latest NTE5c design if needed

Not quite sure why the NTE5C is in there , probably a cut and paste from FTTC install.

I'd be pretty sure that OR wont use anything but their own fibre.

Be careful with a HH5 running Openwrt. If you were thinking of going for the faster speeds > 300Mb , I'm not sure the HH5 running Openwrt has enough oomph!

edit : this https://www.reddit.com/r/openwrt/comments/hhfjku/max_wifi_speed_on_bt_home_hub_5a_running_openwrt/ tends to suggest it maxes out at < 150Mb WAN to LAN throughput

[#4]

@starfry 

Just to add a bit more. If OR have to drill a new access point they do so from the inside of the property. If there's easy access to where you might start your duct run then you could consider putting the duct in place with the draw rope and hope the engineer will be happy to use it.

If they don't there's not much you can do about it.

Brian

[#5]

@starfry 

Bear in mind that my install was done several years ago so some things may have changed, e.g. leaving the copper drop-wire in place.

I have separate fibre and copper cables coming across from the same pole.

My fibre cable enters the house at eaves level via a conduit I ran through the loft which ends in a downstairs utility cupboard containing the water and gas meters.  I used flexible metallic conduit for that to comply with the requirement to enclose the external-type cable used at the time (2-stage blown fibre) but you might not require that.

The CSP is fitted there, and even that is fixed to the wall above the maximum height stated in various places - 1st stage was done by MJ Quinn (a sub-contractor to Openreach) and the fitter didn't take much persuasion to fit it at a height of about 1.5m, neither was the Openreach tech who did the 2nd stage (splice etc.) fazed by that.

The internal cable runs from the CSP to a room above the cupboard via another conduit (plastic) where it plugs into the ONT.  The Openreach guy obligingly at my request left about 25m of the internal fibre cable coiled up under the floorboards to make it easy to move the ONT in future if required.

So as you probably gather, there can be quite a bit of flexibility offered if you do the spade work beforehand and install the necessary conduit with draw ropes.

Both teams who did my install commented that it was one their easier jobs.

[#6]

Looking at it from a different angle, presumably it’s the hub that you want locating in the centre of the house? If so, why not let the fibre come into the house and locate the ONT at that point, next to a power point . Then run a CAT 6 Ethernet cable from that location to your central cupboard, where you can locate your hub. You could do this before FTTP is installed.

[#7]

Thanks this is really useful.

I have read about them drilling inside to out. I've also read about how they sometimes "Blow out" the brick face whilst doing so.

I think I'd probably pre-drill the hole for them. So it's in the right place.

Sounds like, if I provide the conduit, they'll use it to run their cable to my location (10m should be fine, really nice to know they may leave extra if asked). So that's good.

I'm quite happy to do the work up front to may their lives easier, then they can be flexible and make my life easier too  

[#8]

@starfry 

I never though much about drilling holes in outside walls until I read somewhere that you must remember to turn off any "hammer" function on the drill before you reach the outer edge. If working at height OR will also drill holes in the wall to secure their ladder - though of course they have to up there first to drill the holes!!!

If you pre drill and install duct you have to hope that the engineer is happy to use it. There's no guarentee until the day of install.

Brian

[#9]

@Baldrick1 I really, really don't want any equipment outside my cupboard - no wires or boxes requiring a 13A socket in order to work. If I can't get the ONT where I want then a cat5 drop from the ONT to the cupboard will be where I'm forced to go, but I really don't want to go there. I went to great lengths not to have wires etc and don't want to undo that good work now. If it comes down to that, I may just stick it out on FTTC.

The cupboard contains, at the moment, BT OpenReach master socket, PlusNet HubOne (modified, openWRT), a switch, a patch panel (for cat5 to rooms, etc), file server and other gubbins. The natural place for the ONT is in the cupboard next to the HubOne (or eventual upgrade replacement).

[#10]

though of course they have to up there first to drill the holes!!!

Actually they don't, they drill holes at about head height and tether at that level, I've still got the evidence of the holes. Fortunately I had a builder doing some other work at the time, and he popped some mortar in. Not sure if the engineer would have done it ...

[#11]

Just one thing to add.

I would expect it to be a single core fibre (not a pair) that is installed and I'm fairly sure that wavelength division multiplexing is used with Openreach FTTP.

Also as far as I know it is single mode fibre.

[#12]

@MisterW 

Well, you learn something new every day. I would have thought they would apply sealant to prevent water damage. In fact, you could proably complain if they didn't.

Brian

[#13]

I had FTTP installed yesterday. I asked the OR engineer about removing the copper cable and he said it would all be done as part of a later clean up.  Specifically, he said that where it terminates on my property, it would need a longer ladder (the fibre connection is to an easier, more logical location).  

So whether he would he have removed the copper if he could have accessed it, I don't know, but for now I have two cables running across the street.  Not really a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

I have to say, I was very impressed with the OR engineer.  Although I didn't know he was actually coming (I never received any confirmation from PN or a time) he was very good, explained a lot of stuff, tidy, didn't blow any plaster (drilled inside to out) and was I was quite impressed. 

[#14]

@starfry  As people have said a lot depends on the OR engineer and what they are prepared/able to do.

I had FTTP installed at the end of June, the engineer couldn't have been more helpful. As we had ordered FTTP in addition to existing connection from PlusNet so he left the old copper cable in place, he used a hybrid overhead cable that has fibre, copper wires and steel reinforcing wires. He had to run the overhead cable from the pole with the CBT via an intermediate pole to our property. There was an unused cable that ran to the intermediate pole that he used to pull the cable over our neighbour's garden and removed.  He said he preferred the hybrid cables and used them where he could although we didn't need it.

I had installed a 25mm duct from the eves with draw string that ran 8m to where I wanted the ONT (on an internal wall on the 'wrong' side of the house, I ran the duct, with draw string, 6 months earlier when we had the floors up for some other work.) This way quite a long way and in a different room from the old OR master socket. The engineer was very happy to use the duct/draw string and it only took a couple of minutes to pull the inside/out cable through, he seem very happy about how easy it was.

Once our FTTP was up and running the FTTC with PlusNet ended and when our neighbour had his FTTP fibre installed the engineer use our old copper cable to pull the neighbour's fibre between poles and removed it (as agreed with the neighbour and engineer before hand.)

All went very well I am very pleased with the end result.  Full marks to the two OR engineers that did our and my neighbours installs.  Perhaps I was lucky but the other neighbours have been pleased with how helpful the OR engineers were when their installs were done.

This was just my experience, but it sounds similar to what you are hoping to do...  

[#15]

Great information, thanks!

My experience with OR engineers is they try to be helpful, mostly, good to hear experences that concur.

I grabbed an endoscope at the weekend and plan to poke around to see if I can establish a route for a conduit.

@Ian06 you used 25mm duct, was that because 20mm was too thin? what's the diameter of the OR cable?

I was thinking of using something from here https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Conduit_Pvc_Index/Flexible_Conduit/index.html#Flexible_Conta...