PSTN switch off while home phone still under contract options

[#1]

@James_B 

Is the wording in post 14 something that could/should be changed to give more fuller advice?

[#2]

What is the reluctance to go to FTTP here?

An elective move to SoGEA will be a new contract, with the release of the landline number. Thus on balance, what’s the difference to making a move to FTTP?

[#3]

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@Townman wrote:
What is the reluctance to go to FTTP here?

An elective move to SoGEA will be a new contract, with the release of the landline number. Thus on balance, what’s the difference to making a move to FTTP?

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I have no reluctance to go FTTP but I don't want to be tied in to a 24 month contract with Plusnet.

I also like having both home phone & broadband services in one place paying one bill, if Plusnet did VOIP then I would have upgraded to FTTP with them. 

I'm going to see out my current contract & if Plusnet discontinue the phone service before then Ill ask to leave as they cannot provide the service I signed up for a long time ago & have renewed several times. 

[#4]

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@PowerLee wrote:

I have no reluctance to go FTTP but I don't want to be tied in to a 24 month contract with Plusnet.

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@PowerLee  -  just a thought,  is it worth phoning Plusnet retentions and see whether you can get a shorter FTTP contract ?

In the recent past, Plusnet contract lengths were a choice of 12, 18, or 24 months.

Obviously they will be keen to tie you in to the longest period possible, or tell you that only 24 months exist.

I just looked up what FTTP was available, and was given the choice of 12 or 24 months -

So you could argue that Plusnet DO offer 12 month FTTP contracts.

Given that your existing FTTC contract runs till March 2026, they are less likely to agree to a 12 month FTTP contract while your outstanding contract is still greater than 12 months, but perhaps give it a try in April 2025 so that any new 12 month contract's end date would be beyond your FTTC expiry date ?.

Similarly, Plusnet DO offer 12 month "Fibre" (SoGEA) contracts -

So if you wanted control of migrating your landline number to VoIP before being forced to,  perhaps attempt persuading Plusnet retentions (in April) to move you to SoGEA ("Fibre") on a 12 month contract ?.

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@PowerLee wrote:

I'm going to see out my current contract & if Plusnet discontinue the phone service before then Ill ask to leave as they cannot provide the service I signed up for a long time ago & have renewed several times. 

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The trouble with that, is that Plusnet will only give you two unsatisfactory alternatives -

1. They will offer a penalty free transfer of broadband & phone to BT/EE (but be stuck with "Digital Voice" and ISP router)
2. Leave for another ISP who can do both broadband and phone, but you'd have to pay Plusnet exit fees.

It is pretty disappointing that Plusnet (or their overlords) have put so many existing customers in this difficult position by not offering VoIP,  it was certainly the final straw for me, forcing me to leave after nearly 24 years !.  The insane thing about Plusnet not providing VoIP going forward, is that I DID have Plusnet (re-badged Gradwell) VoIP for several years with the Plusnet BBYW packages (about 12 years ago).  In fact I'm still using the same Gigaset N300A VoIP DECT base station, and the old Plusnet VoIP configuration is still in there (albeit disabled).

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[#5]

if Plusnet discontinue the phone service before then Ill ask to leave as they cannot provide the service I signed up for 

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I think it is likely that Plusnet won't impose ETCs when PSTN is withdrawn - however the contract that you agreed to (explicitly or implicitly) when you last renewed allows them to hold you to your contract even if some of the services can no longer be provided by Plusnet, so if they wanted to be mean they could charge ETCs.

[#6]

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@corringham wrote:

.. however the contract that you agreed to (explicitly or implicitly) when you last renewed allows them to hold you to your contract even if some of the services can no longer be provided by Plusnet, so if they wanted to be mean they could charge ETCs.

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Are you suggesting that Plusnet can agree to a contract that consists of both a phone and broadband service and just drop the phone element without giving the customer the option to leave?

Can you point out where this is included in the Ts and Cs? https://www.plus.net/help/legal/terms/

All I can find is:

16.1. We can suspend or stop providing our services and/or end our agreement where:

16.1.1. our ability to continue to provide the service to you is materially and adversely affected because: (i) any of our telecommunications carrier(s) or supplier(s) ceases to provide services to us; or (ii) any authorisation required by us ends or is changed;

It goes on later in this section to comment on notice periods.

There's nothing to say that Plusnet can materially change, by stopping providing a significant part of the agreed extent of supply, but you can't leave without paying ETCs.

I'd love to see that coming to court!

[#7]

Expanding on the above...

16. Our right to suspend your service or end our agreement

16.1. We can suspend or stop providing our services and/or end our agreement where:

16.1.1. our ability to continue to provide the service to you is materially and adversely affected because: (i) any of our telecommunications carrier(s) or supplier(s) ceases to provide services to us; or (ii) any authorisation required by us ends or is changed;

16.1.10. we are no longer providing the service to customers.

16.2. We'll normally give you 14 days' prior notice before suspending or stopping providing our services (and/or ending our agreement) and work to resolve any issues with you. However, we may not do this if there is a real risk of loss or harm to us or our other customers (for example, where there is a reasonable suspicion of fraud or other abuse).

16.4 We can terminate our services and/or end our agreement at any time by giving you 28 days' notice.

16.5. Unless the reason we end our agreement is because we are we are no longer providing the service to customers as set out in paragraph 16.1.10 and you're within the minimum term you'll have to pay an early termination charge as set out in the Price Guide.

So in summary, phone services can be stopped because the supplier has pulled the plug (16.1.1) and therefore Plusnet is no longer providing the service (16.1.10). Somewhere between 14 days' (16.2) and 28 days' (16.4) notice is all that is required.  Given that 16.1.10 applies, ETCs on the stopped service do not apply (16.5).

What is not clear is if 16.5 applies in circumstances where just apart of the service is withdrawn.

For those who have chosen to use two suppliers for communications products - one for the voice service and another (Plusnet) for their broadband services, I can see some potential concerns, but given how long it is since Plusnet offered broadband only services (prior to SoGEA) those users should be out of contract and thus not at risk of ETCs.

[#8]

The way I read the T&Cs is that 16.1 and 16.1.1 cover the case of PSTN being withdrawn and Plusnet no longer being able to provide it, and 16.5 waives the ETCs where the whole service is withdrawn.

However, Plusnet provide Broadband - which historically could have a PSTN service. The PSTN service is an add on like a calls package or caller ID, and isn't the service per se.

[#9]

@corringham 

I agree, there is room to wriggle here!

I see no reason why in the case of FTTC, users could not be switched to SOGEA FoC without needing to agree to agree to a new contract term, especially if ETCs were otherwise deemed due on the residual broadband contract.

Looking at the other consideration, I hope that BTW / BTOR will permit ISP/CP providers place SOGEA / ditch the PTSN service change orders for free ... it is after all they who are imposing the change.

[#10]

@Townman, yes I expect FTTC + PSTN to be changed to a SOGEA connection without a change to the term. Changing the term or starting a new contract would surely allow the customer to leave without ETCs.

Whereas ADSL + PSTN will just go away.

[#11]

From about 2013 to 2015 my Plusnet package was "Broadband Your Way" BBYW-Opt3 which included VoIP as part of the product (i.e. NOT an "Add-On"), and I wasn't using a landline PSTN phone because VoIP did everything I needed.

When Plusnet unilaterally withdrew VoIP, all I received were three monthly notifications (as shown below), no mention of being able to leave due to loss of an integral part of the service I'd signed up to, or waiving of ETCs,

We have some important news to share with you about your Broadband Phone VoIP account.

From 26th August 2015, Plusnet will cease providing VoIP services and our Broadband Phone platform will be switched off. This means you will no longer be able to make and receive calls using your account.

Please don't worry, if you would like to retain your Broadband Phone service and carry on making calls, continue reading and we'll explain what you need to do.

Does this affect me?

Only if you use Plusnet's Broadband Phone service. Broadband Phone is a Voice over IP (VoIP) service that allows you to make cheap or free phone calls using your Internet connection. You can find out more about it here.

Your home phone and broadband service is not affected by this announcement.

Can I carry on using the service?

Yes, you can continue using the service by requesting your account is migrated directly to our trusted supplier - Gradwell Communications.

We have worked with Gradwell for many years to deliver our Broadband Phone service, so by transferring your account to them, you are ensuring that you continue to receive the high quality of service you have come to expect.

You will also avoid any service interruptions, retain your existing number and avoid any costly number transfer charges.

To discuss pricing and available offers, please register your interest using the web form here , and one of Gradwell's UK-based representatives will be in touch to chat to you about your requirements and answer any questions you may have.

What happens next?

You will still be able to use the service up until 26th August 2015. To retain the service beyond this point, you should arrange contact with Gradwell no later than 31st July 2015. This ensures that your account is transferred easily and seamlessly before the service cut-off date.

We'll send another reminder in a few weeks' time; however, if you have any further questions then please take a look at the FAQs we have published here. 

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[#12]

The simple FACT is until PN make the notification of the phone service withdrawal it's all speculation on our part.

Brian

[#13]

"The simple FACT is until PN make the notification of the phone service withdrawal it's all speculation on our part."

Exactly, this is why personal speculation should NOT be promoted, it's up to plusnet to publish the road map not opinions of well intentioned forum members, stick to the facts. 

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/updates/briefings/general-briefings/gen04824 

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/updates/briefings/general-briefings/gen06624  

It could be suggest that plusnet have dug a very large and deep hole by allowing contracts which include landline phone to be  agreed with the December 2025 deadline just 11 months away.

[#14]

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@Dan_the_Van wrote:

It could be suggest that plusnet have dug a very large and deep hole by allowing contracts which include landline phone to be  agreed with the December 2025 deadline just 11 months away.

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Not just allowed, but are still offering "with landline" 18 month renewals - as seen this week Renewing contract with landline 

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[#15]

@outcast 

Should have said I agreed to a new 18 month Unlimited Fibre Extra for 18 months last November, at the same price as "part Fibre" per month.