Renewing contract and maybe moving home phone to fibre...

[#1]

G6JPW/0/MisterW - thanks for your mails, makes interesting reading, telephone over VoIP is new to me - though I've used VoIP occasionally in my ham radio dealings some time ago.

With BT threatening to close the landline service end of 2025 more people will have to make the move to VoIP - well at least most old fogies like me who will still be using the old fashioned telephone and who just can't force ourselves to move over to using mobile phones!  Ironically I had a works mobile probably before many people were using mobiles so I've had one for a 'long' time but somehow always thought of it as a secondary means of communication - when I go out i take it with me but in the house I always reach for the landline.  Probably too old to change now...

It will be interesting to see how my VoIP works out.  I've had one instance where a caller said he couldn't get through and eventually called my mobile(!) and another instance where apparently the call had a lot of echo - apparently typical of some VoIP calls.

A&A have been good - what little support I've required.  Their calls seem cheap but I find understanding their billing a bit difficult, maybe a call to accounts would help...  Also the ringing tone is different - I gather this can be altered via the ATA config so maybe something for later.

Ref the G.711 codec that A&A  - and many others use.  I find the quality is good, wouldn't have noticed any difference from my previous Plusnet/BT offering.  

Thanks again for your inputs.

Oh - G6JPW/0 - is that a ham radio call?

[#2]

I too am an "old fogey" who mostly uses a landline. I have an anytime package with PlusNet at the moment, but those seem to be expensive from most VoIP suppliers (IIRR about 20, maybe plus VAT, from voipfone [do A&A do one?]), so I might have to go for a limited-number-of-minutes one, or even PAYG. The main thing that I can see using them is being put on hold, or holding before I even get to a human - I can see those eating up minutes. Probably still cheaper to PAYG - just I like knowing what my bill will be, so when the time comes I'll probably go for a 100 or 500 minute package.

The discussion of CoDecs was prompted by another thread started by someone - @Devongirl I think - who said she'd tried "internet 'phone" and couldn't get on with it. I suspect, if a VoIP supplier uses the same or better CoDec than BT/PlusNet/Openreach use anyway, she won't notice anything (and in fact probably several of the people who haven't told her they're using "internet phone" she is already talking to). Interesting, however, that it is the VoIP supplier who chooses the CoDec: I got the impression from the GrandView (?) manual that you could choose.

Yes, G6JPG is my call (I had to add the -0 for PlusNet to accept it as a username). [It's also my initials - I had to wait an extra couple of weeks or something like that to get it.] But I haven't transmitted on the amateur bands for many years. It's very useful as a username on places like this forum though!

[#3]

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@G6JPG-0 wrote:

I too am an "old fogey" who mostly uses a landline. I have an anytime package with PlusNet at the moment, but those seem to be expensive from most VoIP suppliers (IIRR about 20, maybe plus VAT, from voipfone [do A&A do one?]), so I might have to go for a limited-number-of-minutes one, or even PAYG. The main thing that I can see using them is being put on hold, or holding before I even get to a human - I can see those eating up minutes. Probably still cheaper to PAYG - just I like knowing what my bill will be, so when the time comes I'll probably go for a 100 or 500 minute package.

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@G6JPG-0 

Providing you don't limit yourself by choosing VoIP kit which can't handle multiple SIP accounts, you might benefit financially from using a service such as the one I've linked below.

No contract required, top up only when you need/want to, use any telephone number you 'own' as CLI, credit doesn't expire - unless used of course!

As it says on the tin, you get 120 days of 'free' calls added every time you top up €10***, and after the 120 days your €10 will be untouched unless you've made chargeable calls to numbers not included in the 'free' list, or gone over 300 minutes in a rolling 7 day period as in the following explanation.

That works by allowing you to make up to 300 minutes of 'free' calls per 'rolling' 7 days during the 120 day period to numbers which are marked as "FREE" in their calls list, which includes UK geographical (landline 01, 02, 03) numbers and landline calls to several other countries.  After the 120 day period expires, you can then use the remaining credit at the (low) call rates*** listed, or top up whenever you like to get another 120 'free' days (AIUI, the maximum number of 'free' days which can be racked up at any one time is 360 days).

I've been happily using this and one or two others for many years.

*** Note Euros, so even less in Pounds.

https://www.freevoipdeal.com/dashboard

[#4]

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@G6JPG-0 wrote:

I too am an "old fogey" who mostly uses a landline.

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A third old fogey here - and ex-ham G6TRS (Telephone Repeater Station) 😃

I too was dubious about VOIP, but it became apparent that it's going to happen soon anyway.

12 months ago I decided to pre-empt any future hassle and migrated to Zen FTTC with Digital Voice (G711 codec), and it all works really well.

I'm in regular phone contact with an ex-colleague, also a ham, with whom I spent many years on BT transmission. "Golden Ears" tells me that since the switch my calls to him are of a slightly improved quality than before.

Incidentally, |'d assumed you'd chosen 'JPG' after the photo file type. Are you still on UMRA?

[#5]

Providing you don't limit yourself by choosing VoIP kit which can't handle multiple SIP accounts, you might benefit financially from using a service such as the one I've linked below.

I haven't looked into the cost premium for a two- (or more) SIP account for ATAs; the common one (GrandView xxx1) is single-SIP. Why do you need two-SIP for the service below - do they charge monthly for receiving calls on a number?

No contract required, top up only when you need/want to, use any telephone number you 'own' as CLI, credit doesn't expire - unless used of course! Well, it does expire if you call even a single "non-free" number during the 120 days.

…numbers which are marked as "FREE" in their calls list, which includes UK geographical (landline 01, 02, 03) numbers and landline calls to several other countries.

But I see doesn't include calls to UK mobiles - which I suspect after POTS turnoff will be the majority of numbers. And for those, it's 30p (not sure if plus VAT) a minute.

  After the 120 day period expires, you can then use the remaining credit at the (low) call rates*** listed, or top up whenever you like to get another 120 'free' days (AIUI, the maximum number of 'free' days which can be racked up at any one time is 360 days).

It seems a very complicated system, but thanks for the link anyway - I've added it to my VoIP bookmark folder!

I've been happily using this and one or two others for many years. (Which others?)

*** Note Euros, so even less in Pounds.

https://www.freevoipdeal.com/dashboard

[#6]

(Yes I'm still on UMRA, and I was JPG - my initials - before the Joint Picture Experts Group was a twinkle in anyone's eye! Retired electronic engineer.)

Glad you've found VoIP excellent. Do you have anytime calls with Zen, or x minutes a month (including to mobiles?), or PAYG (if so what are the rates to UK landlines and mobiles)?

[#7]

I haven't looked into the cost premium for a two- (or more) SIP account for ATAs; the common one (GrandView xxx1) is single-SIP. Why do you need two-SIP for the service below - do they charge monthly for receiving calls on a number?

I'm pretty sure that @RobPN does what I do, that is I have one voip account which hosts an incoming number on a monthly fee basis and then a 2nd account which has no incoming number but has the cli of the 1st account registered as the cli for outgoing calls. The 1st account is used for incoming calls, but outgoing calls are made via the 2nd account because the rate is cheaper. At home my 1st account is with Sipgate (which is actually free as its a legacy account) whereas in the office the 1st account is with A & A. In both cases the 2nd account is a PAYG one with localphone.

As @RobPN you need a sip device that can handle multiple sip accounts and has dial plan functionality so you can decide which types of calls use which sip account. At home I use a Gigaset N300 ( as does Rob I think!), in the office I use a Freepbx/Asterisk system since it has a block of 20 DDI incoming numbers and a much cleverer dial plan...

[#8]

 I have one voip account which hosts an incoming number on a monthly fee basis and then a 2nd account which has no incoming number but has the cli of the 1st account registered as the cli for outgoing calls.

So the one you use for outgoing (freevoipdeal it seems from earlier post) either don't offer an incoming call option, or charge a lot (how much?) for it?

It's all getting very complicated! I'd have to find out how much the extra for a two-SIP ATA would be, then work out how long - at the reduced rates having one would allow me to use - it would take to recoup that extra.

[#9]

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@G6JPG-0 wrote:

Providing you don't limit yourself by choosing VoIP kit which can't handle multiple SIP accounts, you might benefit financially from using a service such as the one I've linked below.

I haven't looked into the cost premium for a two- (or more) SIP account for ATAs; the common one (GrandView xxx1) is single-SIP. Why do you need two-SIP for the service below - do they charge monthly for receiving calls on a number?

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Multiple SIP accounts are needed so that you can receive incoming calls via, say, your A&A account which is hosting the ported PSTN number, and make cheaper outgoing calls via another account whilst presenting your A&A number as CLI for the cheaper account. The process can be made completely transparent and automatic by the use of dialling rules.  The account I mentioned does not charge monthly for anything - there are no charges other than the published call rates per minute, in fact you don't receive calls on that account because the incoming calls are to the account of which you have presented CLI, i.e. A&A in the example above.  There are no call setup fees but they do round up to the next whole minute, e.g. a 1 min 5 sec call would be rounded up to 2 min.

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No contract required, top up only when you need/want to, use any telephone number you 'own' as CLI, credit doesn't expire - unless used of course!

Well, it does expire if you call even a single "non-free" number during the 120 days.

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No, it doesn't expire, it will be slowly reduced by charging for non-free, chargeable calls which is pretty much what I was alluding to, so at the end of 120 days you'll have a reduced amount of credit left, unless of course you use it all.

…numbers which are marked as "FREE" in their calls list, which includes UK geographical (landline 01, 02, 03) numbers and landline calls to several other countries.

But I see doesn't include calls to UK mobiles - which I suspect after POTS turnoff will be the majority of numbers. And for those, it's 30p (not sure if plus VAT) a minute.

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Easily catered for by using another account ( https://www.discountvoip.co.uk/dashboard ) for mobile calls which charges a third of a penny per minute, no call setup charges, and again, credit doesn't expire, in fact it's been several years since I topped up my account.

After the 120 day period expires, you can then use the remaining credit at the (low) call rates*** listed, or top up whenever you like to get another 120 'free' days (AIUI, the maximum number of 'free' days which can be racked up at any one time is 360 days).

It seems a very complicated system, but thanks for the link anyway - I've added it to my VoIP bookmark folder!

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It's actually pretty simple to use multiple accounts which automatically route your calls according to type or number by using those aforementioned dialling rules, and the equipment to facilitate that can be found quite reasonably priced. 

[#10]

So the one you use for outgoing (freevoipdeal it seems from earlier post) either don't offer an incoming call option, or charge a lot (how much?) for it?

It's more the other way round, the one used for incoming calls is cheaper on the monthly charge for an incoming number but is more expensive on call rates!. For instance A & A is around 3x the call cost of Localphone.

The other 'trick' I use is that often calls between users of the same voip supplier are free, A family member also has a voip system with a localphone account, so my wife can talk to her sister for as long as she likes for free!.

[#11]

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@G6JPG-0 wrote:

…numbers which are marked as "FREE" in their calls list, which includes UK geographical (landline 01, 02, 03) numbers and landline calls to several other countries.

But I see doesn't include calls to UK mobiles - which I suspect after POTS turnoff will be the majority of numbers. And for those, it's 30p (not sure if plus VAT) a minute.

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@G6JPG-0 

I just checked the above on the FreeVoipDeal site and although the pricing information gives various charge rates for calls to UK mobiles which I guess could be confusing, I've never been charged anything other than the rate to standard UK mobile numbers which is showing as 1.4p 1.4c/min including VAT.  VAT can be avoided if you just happen to have an address outside the UK/EU 

[#12]

t would be just my luck if the people I called turned out to be "United Kingdom [Others]"! They need to clarify the difference between "[Main]" and "[Others]" - which to be fair they probably do somewhere.

Do FreeVoipDeal not offer incoming VoIP (or charge a lot for it)? I'm still wondering why you have/need a two-SIP ATA.

[#13]

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@G6JPG-0 wrote:

t would be just my luck if the people I called turned out to be "United Kingdom [Others]"! 

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Unlikely, but not impossible I guess.

The other account I mentioned (DiscountVoip) for even cheaper calls to UK mobiles is also cheaper for calls to UK geographical landlines and at least some international calls to both mobiles and landlines but doesn't offer a 120 free day period.  It's also topped up in Pounds rather than Euros.

Do FreeVoipDeal not offer incoming VoIP (or charge a lot for it)? I'm still wondering why you have/need a two-SIP ATA.

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No, AFAIK they don't offer a number (or porting option) upon which to receive incoming calls, but it is possible to call the account by using a SIP URI, so as @MisterW mentioned, free calls can be made between users  of the service.  It is possible to direct calls to the account by associating the accounts SIP URI with a DID number, but obtaining one would most likely entail an expense, although I have several free ones obtained years ago.

[#14]

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@G6JPG-0 wrote:

Glad you've found VoIP excellent. Do you have anytime calls with Zen, or x minutes a month (including to mobiles?), or PAYG (if so what are the rates to UK landlines and mobiles)?

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There's no call plan - Digital Voice is £6 per month, which includes 1000 minutes anytime calls to UK landlines and mobiles.

[#15]

I said in an earlier posting that A&A calls are cheap – but after reading the last few posts some of you guys are getting much cheaper calls!  Unfortunately I’m real newbie at all this – it’s all over my head, so I’ll stick to A&A for now, I do have some echo on the line and I need to change my incoming ring tone (the ATA still has the American tone I think).

I’m grateful for all the postings, this has been an interesting exercise for me.  Next project will be moving my mobile calls from Vodaphone payg – one of the cheapest I’ve found is Asda at £4 a month for unlimited calls and texts but no data, I don’t need data really - or at least very little.  Some more Googling I think!

G6TPG/G6TRS – three hams in the same thread – I’m GW3VVC.  Got my ticket in Adelaide, South Australia when I worked with Marconi as a seagoing Radio Officer doing 25 wpm morse code all day!  When I came back to the UK and applied for a ham callsign I had to sit a 12 wpm test at the local Coast Station – and pay 50p to add to the insult!  Not very active these days – no aerials and being in my eighties the wife won’t let me go on the roof so I play with computers instead!

Thanks again.