Not eligible for automatic compensation?

[#1]

Despite multiple back and forths with plusnet and being told on more than one occasion I was eligible for automatic compensation, when I decided to cancel my service after 4 months of waiting for broadband to be installed (waiting for wayleaves), I was told I was no longer entitled.

First reason given is because I had cancelled my order, I was not entitled to anything. I then was told by someone else that I was eligible but only for 10 days worth. Then I was no longer eligible by another advisor because allegedly when they are waiting for third party permissions to do the work, automatic compensation eligibility is paused?

I'm sorry but.... where does it state this?

My understanding is that even if the issue is out of mine and the Communication providers control, then automatic compensation is still paid. I have skimmed through various bits of Plusnets legal pages and Ofcom regulations but I cannot see any reason why I wouldn't be eligible. The original bit of regulation I was quoted was Paragraph 40 section D of the voluntary code of practice for the compensation scheme. However this seems to be contradicted by paragraph 41, in my case.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has gone through similar where Plusnet appear to be wriggling out of their duty to pay compensation? I've been misadvised on so many things throughout this process and I'm at my wits end now. Currently started the ADR process but also wanted other perspectives. Thanks

[#2]

Moderator's note:
Thread moved from Full Fibre to  My Account/Billing

[#3]

Taking the details of the scheme apart all depends precisely on the wording of any relevant communication...

Service issue 1: Automatic compensation for a delay in activation of a fixed line or broadband service
9. Subject to paragraph 40 (exclusions), a Communications Provider must pay automatic compensation to a customer if it does not activate a customer’s fixed line or broadband service by 11.59pm on the date initially confirmed in writing with that customer.

Do you have a written CONFIRMED installation date?

If wayleaves were required, it seems unlikely that a CONFIRMED date in the context of the scheme will have been set.  FTTP installations can be multi-stage and only the final stage gets a CONFIRMED date.  Plusnet communications usually have a caveat in such circumstances using the words "we aim to..." such is not a CONFIRMED date.

Thus the basis for considering compensation arises only if the written communication states that the installation date was CONFRIMED.

Thereafter paragraph 36 limiting the extent of compensation could come in to consideration...

36. The application of the automatic compensation payable in accordance with paragraphs 10 and 16 (for a delayed provision or repair for a Total Loss of Service) may be limited to 30 calendar days beyond a notice (“the Notice”) being sent to the customer informing them that automatic compensation payments will cease.

Such notice cannot be issued until after 30 days after compensation starts, thus creating a minimum limit of 60 days in protracted circumstances.

Did you receive a notice that automatic compensation will case?

40(d) does seem like a tenuous defence if a COMMITTED date had been given.  The inference being that to have acted to mitigate the delay without the wayleaves would have been in breach of any law or regulation.

41 essentially says that not having control over the behaviour of Openreach is not grounds for not paying the compensation.  If the conditions for automatic compensation are met ... Openreach eventually coughs up to the ISP.  Openreach do though challenge every claim.

If you are sure that the date you were given was a CONFIRMED service start date, then PlusNet's complaints process is the route to take, as per paragraphs 47 & 48...

47. A customer should raise any complaint under this Code in accordance with the principles and process set out in the Communications Provider’s Customer Complaints Code of Practice. A Communications Provider must deal with any such complaint in accordance with such principles.
48. This includes the ability for a customer to follow the ADR process where they wish to dispute the Communications Provider’s decision regarding eligibility for compensation or the amount paid under this Code.

[#4]

I was given 4 total committed dates from plusnet, the first being the 13th of November. There were 75 days between the first committed date and the date of cancellation.

I was told on the phone that at the time I asked, my entitlement was only at 30 days but I didn't receive an email notification.

[#5]

@Townman 

Compounding this is the question whether a claim for compensation can be made after the order is cancelled.  My understanding is that compensation becomes payable after the service is activated.

Do you know if there is anything in the regs relating to the right to cancel and still receive compensation?

[#6]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

My understanding is that compensation becomes payable after the service is activated.

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Surely if that were the case any ISP facing a compensation bill could simply never activate the service, and thereby avoid ever paying compensation.

[#7]

@corringham 

I would assume that both a new customer and Plusnet would normally want the service activating!

Looking at the Ofcom compensation page I read:

... you won’t receive compensation if you breach your contract,

I'm not a lawer but would consider cancellation as breaching the contract. I can understand the OP being released from the contract without penalty due to the failure to supply the service is a timely manner, but compensation in these circumstances?

[#8]

@Baldrick1  the 'what if I cancel my order or service' here https://www.plus.net/help/legal/automatic-compensation/ seems to cover cancelling the order. Compensation stops at the point of cancelling.

It also seems to cover limiting the compensation to 60 days although it doesnr specifically state this MUST be communicated to the customer ( unlike the Ofcom requirement! ). I suppose one might consider that defining it in the FAQ IS communicating ( bit tenuous though! )

[#9]

@Berry24 

In that case, use the complaints process.  If you cannot reach an agreeable conclusion as for a deadlock letter and referral to the adjudicator.

1. You need a confirmed date
2. There is no 30 day limit - after 30 days, a "notice" may be served advising that compensation will cease, not sooner than 30 days after the notice - I calculate that to be a limit of not less than 60 days see paragraphs 36 and 37

36. The application of the automatic compensation payable in accordance with paragraphs 10 and 16 (for a delayed provision or repair for a Total Loss of Service) may be limited to 30 calendar days beyond a notice (“the Notice”) being sent to the customer informing them that automatic compensation payments will cease.

37. The Communications Provider cannot serve the Notice before the date 30 calendar days after compensation starts.

Would you be able to share anonymised copies of these communications please?  The SUs have raised concerns previously about the clarity on installation works communications and the risk of the wrong expectations being set.

Did you receive a notice of limitation?

If the communications you refer to are indeed CONFIRMED dates and you did not receive a notice of termination then it looks as though compensation is payable from the missed first CONFIMRMED date until the date you terminated the contract.

Out of interest what is your go-forward plan?  It is not Plusnet who require the wayleaves, but BT Openreach.  If there is no alternative infrastructure provider who has wires already installed ... you could find yourself back at square one!  As frustrating as it is, it is often better to work forwards with the devil you know, than to find a new devil and to start all over again.

@Baldrick1 

I read nothing expressly covering cancelation being grounds for not paying compensation, however from the following, I would infer that cancelation of the contract does NOT remove liability for payment between the occurrence of the tort and termination

30. Any compensation shall be made in a timely manner and no later than the date:
a. 30 calendar days after a delayed provision is resolved or the customer or Communications Provider terminates or cancels the service intended to be activated;

...

33. If a customer or Communications Provider decides lawfully to terminate or cancel the service for which automatic compensation applies, then automatic compensation payments are only paid in line with this Code up until such termination.

I suggest that these infer that if either the supplier OR the customer draws a line in the sand and quits the agreement then compensation remains payable, up to the point of termination.

Whilst looking for an explicit clause related to termination of the agreement following delayed installation, I noticed this interesting point ...

13. Automatic compensation applies under paragraph 9 above if the Communications Provider fails to deliver the broadband router by the activation date and the customer has notified the Communications Provider that it has not been received. Automatic compensation will not apply in this instance if the Communications Provider can demonstrate proof of postage, or provide equivalent evidence that the router has been correctly dispatched.

That probably explains why Plusnet switched to tracked delivery for routers.

@Berry24 did you ever receive notification of the dispatch of the router?  That is usually tied to a COMMITTED installation date.

[#10]

I stand corrected. The scheme is far more generous than I had assumed!

I should have read the Plusnet Ts and Cs first.

[#11]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

Looking at the Ofcom compensation page I read:

... you won’t receive compensation if you breach your contract,

I'm not a lawyer but would consider cancellation as breaching the contract.

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Looking at the Ofcom Code of Practice document (April 2021) "breach" is mentioned but twice, only once in respect of the customer...

40. A Communications Provider is not required to pay compensation to a customer if:

f. the customer is in breach of the terms under which the affected communications services are supplied;

This is were lawyers earn their money ... in what way in the circumstances might the supplier claim a customer breach of terms where a service has NOT been supplied?

At best, they might want to claim that 14 days notice has not been given!!!

[#12]

This is from my deadlock letterThis is a summary from my deadlock letter. As mentioned, I have gone to ADR but curious as to if anyone else here can relate to this instance and provide an outcome of what happened so I know what to expect. I have been compliant through every step of the process and all I've had in returned is miscommunication. I was well within my right to cancel my order due to these issues and without being in breach.

[#13]

"detract [deduct?] days where we were waiting for permission to work..."
I read the deducted days as an attempt to not pay compensation for issues caused by an event outside of the CP's control and as such is a direct contravention of paragraph 41.
41. Subject to the exceptions in paragraph 40 above, the Communications Provider does not avoid payment of automatic compensation if the issue was caused by an event outside of the customer’s or its own control.
This is not Plusnet's fault, but is yet another failing of the indifferent dead hand of BT Openreach.  I read between the lines that Plusnet are being given the run around by BTOR here ... "days where WE were waiting" if written by Plusnet would read "where our supplier was waiting".  I think that Plusnet have been back to BTOR on this and have received a heavy brush off.  In such circumstances good will gestures have been offered before.
 
Personally I have received automatic compensation without issue ... beyond the 'known' circumstances where loss of service is related to a MSO incident and therefore need manual intervention.
Please do let us all know how the ADR pans out.  Hope the above is useful in your discussions.

Is there agreement that has a COMMITTED installation date - YES
Did you get notification of the despatch of the router - that re-enforces the commitment of the date
Any claim for relief on compensation due to waiting for permission to start works, comes under matter beyond the suppliers control, which under paragraph 41 is not a let on payments
Were you served a notice for limiting automatic payments not sooner than 30 days after the commencement of the breach - if no then there is no limit
Good luck!

[#14]

@Berry24 

The following experience I’ve had with a delayed FFTP installation and compensation may be of interest.

It was with a different CP, however as automatic compensation is an industry wide scheme it should apply equally to all.

I’ll spare the full horror story, the delays were  primarily due to Openreach bureaucracy, incompetance and time wasting insisting on trying to get wayleaves that were not required,  after 90 days Openreach cancelled my  order!

My CP had kept me updated with the ongoing delays and at every point advised me that I would probably be covered by the automatic compensation scheme.

After the cancellation by Openreach, my CP advised to try again and reordered FTTP from scratch – 14 days later I was fully activated 😊.

A sizeable compensation was automatically applied to my account from the original installation date I was given until the activation date.

From my experience delays for wayleaves etc are included in the scheme

This is how the scheme is supposed to work

In my experience it’s not the CP’s who cancel the orders, it’s Openreach, and 90days of delays seems to be a threshold they work to.

Plusnet may have an out here due to you cancelling the order? , however the least I would expect is some form of goodwill compensation - Edit just seen your deadlock letter

[#15]

Thank you @Townman, I appreciate your response.
I had my router from before the original supposed activation date which was the 19th of September.

Despite being told about the automatic compensation and what it was showing as on their system as of December, I had received no correspondence about a stop to my entitlement so hopefully the ADR goes in my favour and I shall update you all of the outcome.