Leaving old provider during cooling off period

[#1]

Hi,

I am leaving Vodafone during the 14 days cooling off period, only because they can't offer the Fibre 2 (up to 80Mbps) that I'm after.

I went live with Vodafone 7 days ago (23rd March), and I contacted them to cancel 3 days ago (27th March) - on that same evening I also signed up with Plusnet. But as I'm "switching" from Vodafone, I see no need to pay £50 for a "New line". 

Vodafone said cancellation will proceed once the router has been returned. Which they should have received yesterday according to courier tracking.

My question is, will cancelling from Vodafone during the cooling off period, and signing up to "switch" to Plusnet become an issue? I'm worried I need to pay for a new line, and I haven't yet received a "Go Live" date from Plusnet yet.

[#2]

Yes of course it will, as ypu have cancelled with Vodafone, no other ISP will be able to place an order untill the cancellation is complete. You cannot place a take over or switch in the Openreach system, only one at a time. You Vodafone cancellation will be whatever their terms are, up to 30 days.

Broadband orders are not try before you buy.

[#3]

Ok, understand that Vodafone must complete the cancellation on their side first.

But after that, what happens with the current line? Will it be ceased and I have to pay for a "New line"?

Otherwise, how else would one switch from one provider to another during their 14 days cooling off period?

[#4]

@gspn 

Who is the current active provider?

If ANY engineering work is required on the line, you will have to pay the installation charge.  For example, if you are with a LLU provider, there is BT OR engineering work required to recover the stolen BT circuit in the exchange, for which there is a "new line" charge.

[#5]

The current active provider is Vodafone. I was hoping plusnet would manage to initiate the switch so that there's no need for "new line". I cancelled with Vodafone and placed the online order within 5 hours. Assuming that a switch doesn't need engineers to come out to do any work.

[#6]

Hi @gspn, checking over your account there shouldn't be a problem here. We're taking over the current line in the property but as Vodafone are using completely different technology to what we use, an engineer will need to go out to convert the line which is why an engineer fee was needed. They won't be coming into the property but going to the exchange & cabinet. 

[#7]

Thank you for your response. A completely different technology? That worries me a bit. Vodafone in my property, uses SoGEA. An openreach engineer tested this line and can get 80Mbps down. I hope Plusnet's technology can achieve the same?

Could you check if the system has a go live date available? The last time I spoke to Plusnet, the unconfirmed target date I was given was 7th April, but this is a bank holiday.

[#8]

@gspn  This thread raises some questions, things don't seem to stack up.

If the Openreach engineer says you could get 80Mbps why could Vodafone not supply this service?

What does the BT speed checker say for your phone number?  BT Checker  You may need to use the address version if your number is not recognised.

What service did you have from Vodafone?   ADSL2+ or FTTC (VDSL2). What speed did you actually get?

Did you migrate from another ISP to Vodafone or were you with them already and you ordered an upgrade?

You say that the line Is SOGEA which is a broadband only service with no traditional phone line, did your Vodafone service have Digital Voice, with your home phone connected to the router?

Vodafone are an LLU supplier,  the connection from the exchange is not from BT equipment, Vodafone have there own equipment which I guess is what @csmith94 is referring to ...."Vodafone are using completely different technology to what we use" .

This was true but applied only to the phone line and ADSL services.  FTTC (VDSL2) is supplied by Openreach and used by all ISPs so doesn't use Vodafone kit, it may not even come from your local exchange.

So if you have digital voice service that would also not come from the the local exchange equipment, it is over the broadband connection.

The only reason I can see for Plusnet to charge the £50 is that your existing phone line is still connected to the Vodafone LLU equipment but I doubt you will ever find out as I suspect their ordering system will just flag up Vodafone as an LLU ISP and stick the £50 on the bill. You could always ask the question.🤔

By the way when I moved house  a few years back and took over a BT line which had Plusnet broadband I got the £50 charge which was wrong. Looking around the forum it seemed to be happening a lot so I pointed this out to a staff member and eventually got it refunded.

Don't worry about the Broadband technology it is the same for all FTTC services.😃

[#9]

Hi, thanks for your reply..

When I signed up with Vodafone, it was a new line - the master socket was already on the wall. I only just moved in. 

At the time of order, Vodafone assumed that only Fibre 1 was available in the area (up to 40Mbps). With the Fibre 1 service, I got 38Mbps down on a speed test and 10Mbps up.

Since the Openreach visit, Vodafone finally updated their website to say that Fibre 2 at my property. They advertised it as £26 per month, and after spending many hours on the phone trying to upgrade my service from Fibre 1 to Fibre 2, they said they can do it, but not at the advertised website price of £26, but for £42. I said I could get from other service providers for £26 and if they can't honour the website price, then I have no choice but to leave within my cooling off period and sign up with someone else. They said they fully understand, apologised and started the cancellation process. In that same evening, I signed up with Plusnet.

Vodafone said the service is a 40/10 SOGEA, but Openreach said it is possible to get 80/20 SOGEA. I can only assume this is FTTC? I had a VOIP adapter connected right into the master socket for the digital voice phone line.

[#10]

@RealAleMadrid Vodafone Fibre 2 is FTTP - see Vodafone Fibre 2 Review - Is it any good? (broadbandanalyst.co.uk)

What is Vodafone Full Fibre 2?

Vodafone Full Fibre 2 is delivered over CityFibre’s FTTP (Fibre To The Premises) network, which is used to provide the service in certain areas.

With an average download speed of 82 Mbit/s. Full fibre 2 is much faster than FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) based Fibre 2 and it also offers faster speeds, particularly in terms of upload speeds, better performance and helps you get the best out of your broadband connection.

The above is clearly "marketing spiel".  This is not much faster than the best end of FTTC.  Note that elsewhere there are suggestions that City Fibre is symmetric!

If a BT engineer speaks of "you can get 80mbps" then that must be FTTC, for BT FTTP will deliver 900mbps (asymmetric!).

@gspn 

@csmith94 's reference to "other equipment" - if nothing else, the fact that the service is SOGEA with Vodafone means that the voice service needs to be repatriated to the BT network.  I have not been able to determine who provides Vodafone's broadband services - BT Wholesale or one of the LLU operators (for example Sky or Talk Talk).  If the latter, the physical circuit will also need to be repatriated ... hence the line provisioning charges.

[#11]

@Townman  there is both Fibre 2 (80/20 FTTC) & Full Fibre 2 (FTTP)  from Vodafone.

If only the ISP's hadn't called VDSL, Fibre then there wouldnt now be this confusion...

[#12]

@Townman 

"Note that elsewhere there are suggestions that City Fibre is symmetric!"

In my area, some CityFibre based ISPs do offer a symmetrical service: Andrews & Arnold being one of them.

From their website: "With CityFibre, the upload speed is the same as the download speed."

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/

Doesn't this suggest that the CityFibre network is capable of symmetric operation - even if most ISPs don't configure their offer in that way?

[#13]

@Townman  This thread seems to have gone off on a tangent but to get back to the original subject. Vodafone Fibre 2 in this case is FTTC, as far as I am aware LLU for FTTC services is almost non existent, that is the D-side cable being supplied from the LLU suppliers FTTC equipment, i.e. DSLAM or MSAN.

There are or were a couple of suppliers that had their own FTTC cabinets such as Origin in Yorkshire who went bust and their cabs were left to rot and Warwicknet (now Glide) who had FTTC cabs in a few areas.

So TalkTalk and Sky use Openreach FTTC and so do Vodaphone and if the OP had SOGEA with digital voice there is no phone line involved so I would argue that there is no physical circuit to be put back to BT. It's a new line so probably already a BT/Openreach line.

@gspn  Thanks for your reply, that makes things much clearer, I can see why you cancelled Vodafone, what were they playing at?  SOGEA is FTTC with no phone service

I am still confused about your Digital voice service, on the Vodafone website the Voip adapter plugs into the router and just converts to a standard phone socket to allow a corded phone or DECT base station to be connected. You say you have a VOIP adapter connected to the master socket. If you are getting a phone service from the master socket you do not have Digital voice. In which case Plusnet are correct in charging the fee for reconnecting the phone line to BT.☹️

@Mr_Paul  The alternative branch on this thread is also quite interesting, CityFibre FTTP is symmetrical but as you say it depends on the ISP.  Some do offer it such as A&A, some will cap the upload speed and the best one is Zen who advertise the highest speed FTTP band as 900Mbps down/100Mbps up when it is actually a 900/900 service. They can't tell you about it because of stupid OFCOM rules on average speeds and the percentage of customers getting particular speeds. There aren't enough customers on the high speeds to allow the figures to be used, or something like that.🤔

[#14]

Looking at the user guide for the Vodafone Hub, you're right @RealAleMadrid - the VOIP adapter is supposed to be plugged into the back of the router. The Openreach engineer must have plugged it into the master socket by mistake, but we never plugged in a phone to use or test it. 

[#15 · Accepted solution]

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@RealAleMadrid wrote:

... if the OP had SOGEA with digital voice there is no phone line involved so I would argue that there is no physical circuit to be put back to BT. It's a new line so probably already a BT/Openreach line.

You might have made the quintessential point very well - thank you.

With SOGEA provision there is no necessity for an e-side circuit between the cabinet and the exchange, as the voice service is carried as VoIP.

1. Plusnet does not do SOGEA
2. Plusnet does not do VoIP

Therefore a user migrating to Plusnet from a user who has had voice delivered as VoIP by the previous supplier (telephone plugged into the back of the router) will require...

1. The presence of an e-side circuit
2. The existing number repatriated to BT PTSN (if they wish to retain it)
3. Their phone connection point moving from the router to the telephone socket