Using the BT Smarthub 6 on a Plusnet Account

[#1]

@Baldrick1 now I am annoyed. What I think it's a good idea is that I have WiFi in my house that has good throughput. After 72 pages on another thread and 25 on here please tell me what is a good idea.

Considering that I explored what I did on another the forum and was given suggestions by another eminent poster I went ahead. My line in goes to my hub1, all WiFi turned off. Ethernet to a Deco mesh dish. WiFi now routed via the Deco. The Deco is set up as a router not an access point. As an aside I installed a second Deco to give wide range coverage which you would not expect from a single access point.

As an ex, if there is such a thing, electronics engineer, my job was to solve problems not ideas. I digress but in the early days of colour TV I had to find a way of removing what is known as the colour burst from the waveform when a b&w film was transmitted. £400 piece of kit! My solution was an unterminated piece of coax the length was 1/2 wavelength of the colour burst frequency. Maybe not a good idea? It worked!

So, save me having to understand yet more of the details of how the internet and distribution works and TLAs, what is a better solution to what I am doing? What is wrong with what I am doing? Simple language please.

I pay £19.80/month for line rental and unlimited fibre on a 80/20 profile. I want to be able to get that stream delivered to the house at a speed commensurate with the physical distance I am from the cabinet. Once delivered I wish to distribute this data at a rate commensurate with the physical construction and size of the property. All of this with a reasonable degree of constancy.

After literally, and I do know how to use the word literal, over 3 months of various contacts I feel I may have achieved that.

[#2]

Thanks @Baldrick1,

All sorted and FW updated to SG4B1B0092BE.

Very impressed WiFi more stable and faster as well.
Another plus is my line synch speed has gone from 43 to 50.96, upload improved by 1mB as well
Thanks for all your help.

[#3]

@briston  I am sorry that I have ruffled your feathers.

I made the post also in case another reader followed your lead and ran into problems when it's so easy to set up your arrangement correctly. But if it works with you then that's fine.

If you want to know why double NATing is a bad idea then do a Google search.

In the distant past I also made TV aerials by stripping back the outer sheath and pulling the inner core through the screen to make a half wave dipole. It was common practice at the time. In fact there's still one in my loft tuned for the FM radio band.

[#4]

couple of questions guys, concerning the business smart hub 6, if you can enlighten me

how can you tell the difference between the router that is for FTTC and the one that is for FTTH? what is the performance difference? why wont the FTTH router work on the FTTC line? is it that it's just not compatible with copper or is there a more pronounced reason?

[#5]

@prettygrim49  It does work on FTTC have a look at this thread

https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-a-FTTP-Smarthub-6-on-a-Plusnet-FTTC-Service/m-p/165176... 

[#6]

@prettygrim49 

In addition to @RealAleMadrid  advice the difference is a red WAN sticker fixed to one of the LAN sockets and the part number. I have also tested a Business FTTP Smarthub 6 and that also helps.

[#7]

@RealAleMadrid and @Baldrick1

many tnx for the replies and advice guys. going on what you said about one difference being the FTTP router is Part 084318. am i right in saying then that the FTTC router Type A is Part 088315, or am i off track here? is there a newer router (Type B?) or am i again off the track?

[#8]

@Baldrick1 ruffled my feathers maybe, but following your comments I did do yet more research.

As terminology is a bit pedantic sometimes I note that on 14th April I was given an opinion to purchase a different router. This I thought I did, by purchasing the Deco. I didn't purchase a different modem. I won't go into who gave that piece of advice :).

On another thread another eminent poster gave advice as to how to set up the hub1 as a modem. Just saying turn off the WiFi. No mention of double NATing.

Actually using the cmd prompt on a Windows 10 computer, yes I can still remember how to change to the root directory and doing tracert (don't know any other way) yes I am, or was double NATing. So changed my Deco mesh to access point and now not double NATed.
However I have lost the ability to QoS devices.

It now remains to be seen if double NATing caused any problems or losing QoS causes problems.

Begs the question. How does one set up a mesh network. Presumably the purchase of a modem has to be very carefully considered.

[#9]

@prettygrim49 

An 084318 is definitely a Residential FTTP Smarthub 6. I have no experience of an 088315 but this post indicates it is a FTTC model http://www.westcomltd.co.uk/uploads/1/0/6/6/106654289/smart_hub.pdf

Be careful, there is an alleged 088315 I came across on Ebay that showed pictures of a Home Hub 5.

[#10]

@briston 

The problem that you have is that you are using a combined modem/router, not a modem as the interface to your incoming broadband signal. If you use a simple modem such as a Model 3B Huawei HG612, available cheaply from the likes of Ebay,  in place of the Hub One then you can use your M5 as a proper router with all the additional functionality. By using your M5 in Access Point mode the routing function is still being done by the Hub One, hence your loss or QoS control.

Some combined modem/routers can be configured to disable the router function and just work as a bridge modem, unfortunately the Hub One does not have this capability.

[#11]

---

@briston wrote:
As terminology is a bit pedantic sometimes I note that on 14th April I was given an opinion to purchase a different router. This I thought I did, by purchasing the Deco. I didn't purchase a different modem. I won't go into who gave that piece of advice :).

---

Another example I'm afraid, see  https://community.plus.net/t5/Plusnet-Feedback/When-is-a-Router-Really-a-Modem-Router/m-p/1742624#M8...

[#12]

@Baldrick1 nice one my problem was the other way. Definitely bought a router knowing full well I needed a modem. But thought I had a modem if I turned off the WiFi. I'm looking at the modem, yes modem, you pointed out.

[#13]

I'm late to this party and will be honest have not read every page of the thread but after having a significant number of issues last year with Plusnet thought my experience might be of use......

As a quick recap, my internet connection went to [-Censored-]. Turns out this was due to lots of micro disconnects per day which the automated training system interpreted as interference and gradually turned my speed down from 37 to about 11....

Support claimed that my original equipment Huawei modem was faulty. So I purchased a Draytek Vigor 130 Modem (Lantiq chipset). This didn't solve the issue. Was sent a PlusNet Hub which helped but made all my decent 4 stream AC WiFi equipment suffer..... So i bought a BT Business Smart Hub 6 and the 4th or 5th Openreach engineer finally found a fault on the line........

Also it turns out we have a Huawei DSLAM.

Lessons Learned

The PlusNet supplied combined Modem & Router is pretty garbage as a router. Its an outwardly reskinned old BT Home Hub 4 (or 5) can't recall exactly.

If I recall you also cannot set it up as in Modem Only mode. FYI this is the same for all NON BUSINESS BT HUBS - the firmware is locked.

If you want a Modem Only then there are a few choices available. I don't have the list of them all but the key points center around who manufactures the particular chipset inside it including but not limited to

• Broadcom
• Lantiq

The Green (DSLAM) Cabinets have different brand modem chipsets inside of them.

FTTC DSLAM Models

BT Openreach currently use 3 different DSLAMs in their FTTC Cabinets

• ECI M41 - Lantiq chipset
• Huawei MA5603T - Broadcom chipset
• Huawei MA5616T - Broadcom chipset

Resources (dont worry that it says adsl in the link - its the same resource)

https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm

https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm

Why is this important?

If you use a modem with a Lantiq chipset internally and are trying to connect to a Broadcom DSLAM then you will generally find your connection is not as good as if you used a Broadcom chipset modem.

So its important to find out what type of DSLAM cabinet you are connecting to BEFORE buying a modem or modem/router and then to match the chipsets of the two devices accordingly.

BT BUSINESS Smart Hub (also referred to as Business Hub 6)

This uses a Broadcom chipset.

The BUSINESS Smart Hub is the version you will want to use if you intend to only use the modem and and use a separate WiFi Router.

There are a number of different Model Numbers but there are 2 DIFFERENT VERSIONS

FTTC - has 4 YELLOW gigabit ethernet ports on the rear

FTTP - has 1 RED & 3 YELLOW gigabit ethernet ports on the rear

Plusnet only offer FTTC (at least as far as I am aware) and therefore you will need the version with 4 yellow ports on the rear.

These are pretty cheap on the second hand market.

BT Smart Hub (also referred to as Home Hub 6)

This uses a Broadcom chipset.

If intend to simply replace you Plusnet Hub AND you don't mind, possibly, NOT being able to turn off the HOTSPOT WiFi then this is the one to go for (can be a little cheaper than the Business version).

It seems that being able to turn off the WiFi HOTSPOT functionality may be restricted to a setting shown in the account (rather than in the Modem/Router settings) with the latest firmware update.. not 100% confirmed.

Fixing connection speed issues

Unless you have an engineer come out to fix a fault and specifically request a DLM Profile Reset then you are subject to the time scale and vagaries of the Automatic Training System.

Essentially this will over time increase your connection speed (within the maximum permitted parameters) until it finds the level that gives you a consistent connection at the best speed available.

Plusnet also have the ability to request a remote DLM Reset via Openreach (but good luck getting them to do this!)

You can cheat the system slightly though.

You need to unplug your Modem (or Modem/Router) from the main telephone socket and leave it as long as possible a minimum of 30 minutes but the longer the better - i found that overnight worked best. This seems to trick the automatic training system into default mode (kinda like when you just started the service).

I currently have 2 Business Smart Hubs - one used as a dedicated modem (all WiFi turned off) and the second is being used as an Access Point (AP) to supply a stronger WiFi signal to the garden (so the modem is turned off). That being said the second Hub needs to have an Ethernet connection of some sort (typically you would use either a direct cable or a powerline adapter to do so). I think i paid £20 or £30 for the 1st one brand new, unopened and £11 for the 2nd one used.

I hope this helps someone out.

Guide to Access Point (AP) Mode (its mostly correct)
https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Devices/BTHub6-Smart-Hub-As-WiFi-Extender-or-AP-Access-Point-amp-HH5/...

[#14]

. Thanks for the heads up on double NATing. Yes, yet more reading. Although, probably, double NAT was not have any detrimental effect it was an affront to my engineering mindset. Of course, I didn't think that until you pointed it out.

I purchased a HG612 3B. not from the auction site, they seem to always go above the 20 pound mark. There is a firm selling them for 17 delivered.

All installed. Not double NATed. Everything connects. . No throughput problems.

It's such a pity that I have had problems for months. First blaming it on my cheap Chinese phone only to find I had 2 line faults and then a router problem which was the final straw. On the whole saga, plusnet have lost the plot.

[#15]

@briston 

Well at least you got there in the end. 

If you want a further challenge you can unlock the HG612 and access the DSL stats. You just need another Ethernet port on your router. Instructions are here. https://kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm