Feedback on on-going house move

[#1]

Hiya,
I've recently moved house and arranged for phone and fibre service to be moved. The phone started working on the morning of the appointment (the engineer didn't need to visit) but the experience with the fibre installation has been disappointing.
The engineer didn't arrive for the fibre appointment and noted that they couldn't find the property - they also noted that they tried calling the numbers but had no reply. I had no calls or texts on either number, and had I not called to find out if the phone engineer was still coming having not heard anything by 1pm I'd not have plugged in a phone anyway ;). I disputed the 'no access' but the suppliers sided with the engineer notes.
The appointment was rebooked for 6th May, but when I called to ask for an earlier appointment it ended up being moved to the 8th May in the same call because £50 was payable for missing the first appointment - even though the engineer acknowledged they couldn't find the house and Plusnet acknowledged I wasn't at fault.
The appointment was then rebooked for today, but again no engineer arrived. The ticket has directions, parking details, what the house looks like and an annotated photo of the location on the road. I've given the details twice on the phone and updated the ticket myself to give the engineer as much info as possible. I was asked for three possible dates I can be at home, and replied that anything would be fine - just whatever has the best chance of succeeding.
I also added the identifying marks from the BT Pole / Distribution Point to the ticket so that the engineer could locate and stand next to the pole on the road from their own records and follow the drop cables from the pole to the property - you can see the entire length of cable from pole to house...
When I called at 6pm today I was advised that the appointment was still on for today, but there was a delay from earlier in the week and it could be Tuesday before an update is available as Plusnet need to check with the supplier.
Would it be quicker to cancel the FTTC order and go for standard ADSL so no engineer visit is needed and I can get online - and then  try to place a new FTTC order when there's more time to work out the kinks with the supplier? In hindsight had this been done when the first appointment fell through the ADSL would have been activated today.
All of the CSA's I've spoken to have been very polite and helpful, and I know you're not bringing t'modem from Sheffield yourselves. As it stands there is no indication on what happened today, and no idea of when a new appointment might be. I use the broadband to work from home and I feel like I'm saying the dog ate my homework. This week I've been using Starbucks wifi and rented desks but it's an expensive solution and I'm now facing a third day off work for the next appointment.
Throughout the move I've followed all the instructions from Plusnet (and added further details for the engineer) and I appreciate that the CSA's are good and do apologise a lot for the problems, but the installation seems no nearer.
Cheers.

[#2]

Hi Fruitnofibre,
Welcome to PlusNET and the forums.  Sorry to hear of the appalling service from BTOR who provide the wires for all ISPs.
The PlusNET Digital Care Team (DCT) are only on the forums Mon-Fri during office hours.  Sometimes some of the support people do look in here over the weekend.  Users such as myself cannot assist with issues such as this, so it might be Monday before you receive a response here.
Good luck, knowing just how bad BTOR can be, you might need it!

[#3]

Hi Townman,
Thanks for the reply - the forum is very useful and this is the first time I've posted.
It does seem that BTOR are the issue... I have noticed that when an appointment is booked the CSA's are very positive about the appointment, say the engineer will probably call (or text if they can't get through) before the appointment, etc and I suppose that's true of the majority of cases. But when you call after it goes wrong there's a list of reasons why BTOR are stretched with lots of new orders, too few engineers, dealing with the aftermath of the floods, appointments are 10+ working days away, etc as if it's not a surprise or exception.
The stats on the BTOR website look very favourable for missed appointments on their part, but my experience has been that they acknowledge they can't find the premises - but still dispute their liability with the CP for no access to the property. Plusnet just ask that you be available for the appointment and not that you should stand outside with a Formula 1 style pit board. 
I kind of wish the risk of the appointment failing and the long appointment windows had been stated up front rather than the reminders about £50 for me missing the appointment.

[#4]

Hi Fruitnofibre,
You are not wrong, however insight is helpful.
PN agents have access to BTOR's appointment system.  BTOR offer "availability" for either AM or PM based on who knows what scheduling model.  Some engineer visits last say 30 minutes others 4+ hours, depending on location and the nature of the FOUND problem.
I believe that when an agent books an appointment they do that in good faith based on the information provided by BTOR, sometimes 2-3 weeks before the actual date.  Between then and the date, problems do happen which can mean (forgive the pun) wholesale movement of BTOR resources can be required to deal with such massive issues.  On the micro level, if for the appointment slot there is "bad luck" and the jobs are on average much longer than the scheduling model anticipates, engineers might not get free from a job as quickly as anticipated and so fewer jobs can be attended to within the shift... now here comes the rub...
Not all of the 'wires' engineering work is carried out by BTOR itself, much is undertaken by contractors, who are paid per job attended, not per job rectified.  Therefore I suggest that in some cases it is possible to see how the process driven targets can be seen to be achieved, if a few "customer not present" or "property not found" or "wrong key for cabinet" closures can be applied to jobs on busy days.  This helps no one, other than the sub-contractor.  There are tales on here of engineers posting pictures of completely the wrong place, of claims of premises being visited yet, there is no evidence of that on the premises' CCTV security systems.
Reading the many complaints on this forum, it is evident that in some areas BTOR are delivering a truly shocking level of service.  Personally I have never had a claimed visit which found me out, though I have had a couple of no shows, most of the engineers have tried hard to locate and rectify faults, I once had 2 guys on site for nearly 6 hours.  Some engineers would have said "I've used up the allocated time for this job, I'm leaving, you'll have to raise a new call with your supplier.
I would ask DCT to challenge the BTOR "missed appointment claim" - get BTOR to prove that they were at the location.  Get them to prove that their address data is correct - at my (vacated) business premises, the pub's name was changed somewhere in the late 1990's - until about 15 months ago BTOR's records still had the old name for the pub, with the consequence that every visiting engineer could not find the premises, even though I know that PN specifically raised this on the job's "special notes" - you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.  Also ask which numbers did the phone - have you checked that the incoming line rings out?  Unfortunately engineers call with 'number withheld' mobiles, so if you miss the call (on the loo) you cannot even do 1471 ring-back.  Might be worth while doing a line identification test 17070 and confirm that the number is right.  It has been known...
Good luck!

[#5]

I hope you have refused outright to pay the £50. You should also ask Plusnet how much compensation they are going to give you for the missed appointment (OpenRetch should be paying Plusnet £45)!

[#6]

Hi Townman,
Thank you for the reply and the suggestions - that is interesting and helpful to read. I can see how those sorts of issues would affect the engineer's schedules. I've ordered residential and business lines before and have found BTOR to be OK and my last Plusnet order was very smooth. It seems like fibre is taking up a lot more of their time? I'll check out your suggestions when I'm at home - thanks.
Hi jelv,
Thank you for the link - I will mention this to PN! I did dispute paying the £50 and after speaking to a supervisor it was waived.

[#7]

Hi fruitnofibre,
I'm very sorry for the issues regarding your Fibre serving being installed in your new property.
I have sent you a private message and once I receive a response from you I will be looking into this.

[#8]

Thanks for getting back to me fruitnofibre.
I've had a look into this for you and I can see that a member of our Supplier team tried to call you earlier today, however, you were unavailable. Sorry you weren't able to take his call. He's been informed by our suppliers that unfortunately the expedited appointment for Friday was not booked in their systems correctly which resulted in an engineer not being assigned. I can only apologise that this is the outcome. Our Supplier team have raised an escalation regarding this to get another appointment booked in for you. They should hopefully get an update on this in the next 24 hours.
I'll personally keep an eye on this for you to ensure that our Expedites team chase for an update tomorrow. Hopefully we can arrange for an engineer to attend this week and provide you with the service in your new property.

[#9]

Linn,
Has anything been done to ensure that BTOR know exactly where are these premises, given their previous (claimed) difficulty in finding it?
I have experienced repeated 'cannot locate premises' issues due to BTOR's data being well out if date - irrespective of PN's stirling efforts to inform them of the correct address.
Cheers,
Kevin

[#10]

Hi Kevin,
Yes, we've updated the engineer notes with the relevant directions for this customer's property.
I recall the issues you experienced was due to the property name changing and the fact that BTOR's systems hadn't been updated with the new name, was that right? If that was the case then it may be worth noting that this isn't the same issue for this customer.

[#11]

Hi Linn,
Thanks for the update - I've just picked up the voicemail and the update to the ticket.
That's good to know that the location details are available to the engineer too.
I'll keep an eye out for further news on an appointment - if a Saturday is available that would be helpful now. I've never watched so much Snooker on TV!
Thanks again.

[#12]

I'll personally check back on this tomorrow morning for you, fruitnofibre. If we don't receive a satisfactory response to our escalation then we'll request the expedite from our side. Unfortunately we wouldn't be able to expedite it for a Saturday appointment so would it be possible for you to confirm your availability for this week on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday? AM appointments are between 8AM and 1PM and PM appointments are between 1PM and 6PM.
I will pass on your availability to our Expedites team so that we book this for a time that you're available.

[#13]

Thanks Linn - that's great. Can I go for a Thursday AM appointment please?
I was going to ask the fibre engineer about moving the master socket whilst installing fibre - is this something that they can do as part of the installation?
The cable comes in the house and goes around skirting boards and door frames, but it'd be better for the phone and router if the socket was exactly where the cable comes through the wall in to the house. It shouldn't require any new cables - just the existing one shortening.

[#14]

I'll do my best to get Thursday AM for you
Moving the master socket isn't part of the Fibre installation so this is completely up to the engineer who visits. I've been made aware that some are more than happy to do it if you ask nicely and some point blank refuse and state that they are solely there to install the Fibre service at the existing master socket (which is correct). It's basically down to engineer discretion so I would suggest maybe try to offer them a cuppa and ask nicely and hopefully the engineer who visits will oblige

[#15]

Quote from: Linn

Yes, we've updated the engineer notes with the relevant directions for this customer's property. I recall the issues you experienced was due to the property name changing and the fact that BTOR's systems hadn't been updated with the new name, was that right?

Hi Linn,
Unless you were in the back ground of DCT / business support, I do not recall you being around at the time I had my issues... though you might be remembering what I have wrote recently!  What concern me for this user is that on each engineer call out PN did exactly what you have done here, however the BTOR engineers frequently did not bother reading the notes, either before attending site or even after arrival.  On some occasions they even said that the full notes did not get through to them.
On several occasions, they'd drive up and down the two mile road twice, then phone me... or claimed they had after a no-show.  I used to be frantic about missing a call on days of anticipated visits... even went to the extremes of taking the mobile and a land-line handset everywhere with me and I mean everywhere! 
Cheers,
Kevin